STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

Kari · Dooney & Bourke

Bump denial...

jacL · Coach

Good luck kari!

Elle · Hermes

Well, you have every right to wait to tell them for as long as you want! They hardly need 5 whole months to prepare for your leave, they're just being really obnoxious and nosy. And frankly, them being a bunch of lawyers, it suprises me that they would be discussing the medical status of another employee with each other, behind said employee's back.

If they give you any shit about it (even if they don't, honestly), I'd tell them that you were waiting to see if the pregnancy was healthy and could be expected to proceed normally before you made the information public, in a real nice deadpan-like voice. With a straight face.

Asshats. Have I instilled enough righteous indignation in you? Righteous is way funner than scared.

esquiress · Marc Jacobs

Good luck and hurry up and tell, Kari! I used to do preg. discrimination cases and the number one worst thing to do is wait to tell--if sh*t hits the fan and you end up getting fired because of your pregnancy, here's the worst case scenario (that's unfortunately, all too common):

employee gets preggo.

doesn't tell anyone.

people can tell. they start putting negative reviews/write-ups in her file--often without even telling her.

she tells.

they fire her.

she sues, claims preg. disc.

they deny that they even knew she was preggo, goes something like this:
"we didn't even know she was pregnant. she never told us....and see all these negative reviews? they happened before she even told us she was pregnant so so see, we weren't discriminating against her at all when we fired her. she was just a bad employee." they totally use the fact that the employee didn't tell untill after the date of the negative reviews/critiques/write-ups against her.

if she has a good lawyer, the lawyer will do a ton of discovery/take a bunch of depositions of witnesses to reveal the fact that everyone knew.

however, things are a LOT easier when she tells as soon as she knows because then they don't have time to build a "case" with phony evid. to fire her.

Ok, lecture over. I'm really sorry to scare you more, but I've seen the above scenario go down waaaay too often to not share.

p.s. Elle, there's nothing illegal about discussing the medical status of another employee per se, but that info can be used to reveal that they did in fact know she was preggo if sh*t goes down.

Elle · Hermes

esquiress wrote:

p.s. Elle, there's nothing illegal about discussing the medical status of another employee per se, but that info can be used to reveal that they did in fact know she was preggo if sh*t goes down.

Just because it's a pregnancy and not a 'bad' medical thing means they can discuss it whenever they like? Seriously? Like they could do the same if she had depression or cancer or HIV?

esquiress · Marc Jacobs

Elle wrote:

esquiress wrote:

p.s. Elle, there's nothing illegal about discussing the medical status of another employee per se, but that info can be used to reveal that they did in fact know she was preggo if sh*t goes down.

Just because it's a pregnancy and not a 'bad' medical thing means they can discuss it whenever they like? Seriously? Like they could do the same if she had depression or cancer or HIV?

yes. Employees talking is just that--talking. What Kari should watch out for is what the employer will do (hopefully not, this really is just a worst case situation discussion) about her pregnancy. If she gets fired for it, THAT is illegal. People gossiping about her condition--that's just rude.

Kari · Dooney & Bourke

Thanks for all the comments. I did tell scary man boss today. The look on his face tells me that he had no clue (again just office gossip speculating that he probably knew). He seemed visably disappointed!!! The girl that was just gone on maternity leave made a pretty big mistake during her pregnancy and then was gone during trial so scary man boss had to clean it up and we lost a really big case. I think he totally blames the pregnancy!!!

Anyway, he congratulated me and just encouraged me to keep up to date on all my cases and to get another associate involved in each of them in case I have to be gone to anything unexpected happens.

I know I have always heard that it is illegal to fire an employee b/c of pregnancy, but since I am an at-will employee, I figured they could always come up with some kind of excuse. They don't keep any formal complaint system or write ups so I don't think they could prove a history of documented problems.

However, since the FMLA is only for companies with 50+ employees, I wouldn't be suprised if he cuts my maternity leave in half compared to the employee who was just gone. He kept commenting that she should have been back earlier.

I know you are all thinking "why work for a company like that"....but every female I know has similar experiences at their law firms. Truth is, it still sucks to be a female attorney in Oklahoma City!!!

esquiress · Marc Jacobs

I feel just awful that you even have to be thinking about this kind of stuff during such a blessed time of your life. Having said that, I also feel that knowledge is power so just a couple of clarifications:

Everyone is an at-will employee. That means they can fire you for any reason or no reason as long as the reason does not have to do with the ee being part of a protected class. In California (the only state where I am licensed to practice), pregnancy is a protected class. In the federal system, under Title VII, pregnancy discrimination falls under sex discrimination, which is of course, illegal. What that means is, even if Oklahoma does not have a state law prohibiting pregnancy discrimination, under Title VII, a plaintiff still has a federal cause of action. So, no where in the USA is it ok to discriminate based on pregnancy. Regardless of "at-will" employment.

Now, with wrongful termination claims, the case goes back and forth like a tennis ball. First: plaintiff's burden is to show a prima facie case. Plaintiff has to show 1) she's a member of a protected class (here pregnancy/sex), 2) she was performing satisfactorily at her job, 3) she suffered an adverse action (such as termination, demotion), 4) some other indicia of discrimination, (i.e. derogatory comments at work, timing of firing coincided with pregnancy, etc.). Once the Plaintiff shows that, Defendant has to come up with a legitimate non-discriminatory reason. Like write-ups, tardiness, whatever. Then the ball bounces back to Plaintiff. Plaintiff has to show that that stated legitimate non-discriminatory reason is just pretext for firing based on a protected class.

Ok, the lesson's gonna stop there because I feel like I already kind of exhausted this topic and I really don't want to freak you out when so far, everything is fine. But here's the bottom line: yes, work politics suck. but the law is there to protect you. so don't look at yourself at the mercy of others. You have rights.

If I were you, I'd continue doing a good job at work, take my full maternity leave allotted (don't know exactly how many weeks that is in Oklahoma, I'm sure at least 12 weeks), enjoy my baby and take comfort in the knowledge that the law is there to protect me, and if need be, I'm not afraid to use it.

blink · Coach

Kari wrote:

Thanks for all the comments. I did tell scary man boss today. The look on his face tells me that he had no clue (again just office gossip speculating that he probably knew). He seemed visably disappointed!!! The girl that was just gone on maternity leave made a pretty big mistake during her pregnancy and then was gone during trial so scary man boss had to clean it up and we lost a really big case. I think he totally blames the pregnancy!!!

Anyway, he congratulated me and just encouraged me to keep up to date on all my cases and to get another associate involved in each of them in case I have to be gone to anything unexpected happens.

Be aware that your boss isn't totally off base by totally blaming the pregnancy for that other girls mistakes, though he may not know the science behind the reasoning. Sorry if this sounds sexist, it's really not, but pregnancy and childbirth does change your brain (temporarily) and you may very well not be working as well as you were before. But don't be ashamed of this. It's completely normal and male employers (geez, and some females too) need to be understanding of this natural chemical, hormonal change that goes on with pregnant women and new mothers.

I experienced "mom brain" myself in 2004 and it was all made clear to me when I read, The Female Brain, by Louann Brizendine, M.D. last year. Might be a good book to reference in case you are worried about getting complaints for little mistakes that are blamed on pregnancy. Maybe your boss should read it too, so he would perhaps gain an appreciation for the flip side of it, which is women's unmatched capability to communicate (essential for an attorney, right?) biggrin

Anyway as long as you stay alert to your shifting hormones, I doubt you'll make any big mistakes like the other girl did.

I hope the boss gives you the FMLA 12 weeks, if he doesn't, I hope you're able to take them anyway without pay. It goes by so quickly you won't even believe it and if you are anything like me, you'll still feel brain-fried at 6-8 weeks post partum anyway, you never know!