STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

laken1 · Hermes

Feeling uneasy politically....

gingembre1 · Kate Spade

For me, hearing the results yesterday, it was like taking a huge sigh of relief. How can it be anything but better? It certainly can't get worse...Certainly we won't be passing any more laws okay-ing torture in interrogation, or trying to change the constitution to limit peoples' rights, or further increasing the president's powers. Our country has been sliding quickly downhill, and I am so glad that we will finally be going in a new direction. Just because the conservatives in power swung so far to the right, doesn't mean the democrats will automatically swing radically to the left. I think that defeats in recent years have shown them that Americans in general are pretty conservative, and if you read statements from Nancy Pelosi and newly elected Democrat senators, you will see that plans are so far reasonably moderate. In fact, many of the Democrat senators recruited to beat Republican incumbents are solidly middle of the road, or even right-leaning.

I don't know if this reassures you at all, but I've been scared for the last 6 years, and I feel like now our country might have a hope.

luckylily · Gucci

I am among those who are thrilled to death with the election results. However, I am still terribly uneasy as well. There is no easy answer for either party, and I doubt ANYONE would be able to resolve the issues facing the country very quickly. The election results just give me a little hope that perhaps a different perspective might start to get things turned around. Plus, I'm very liberal on almost all issues, so I personally am just a little bit more comfortable with more Dems in office.

After the war started, my Dad reminded me that although this seems like the toughest time in American history too me, my life has been pretty short. My grandparents, and even he having been in Vietnam, had gone through things that had been just as bad, and the country always came out the other side. I dunno, I guess knowing that bad things happen, and yet life continues makes me feel better, even if it is a bit too optomistic sometimes.

Hermes

laken1 - I stand exactly as you do on the issues (at least the ones you listed) -- why can't we have a candidate that represents that position?

anyway - I'm scared shitless in regard to Michigan. my husband is in economic development, and Grandholm scares the shit out of me. For example, there was a Japanese company that supplies the auto industry. Because our state is not competitive with other states in regard to making life easy as a company, they chose to place their facilities near the border of Michigan in Indiana. Grandholm's response was to decrease corporate taxes near the state's border! She just doesn't get it - the appeal is not to be near the border - the appeal is to be geographically close to the companies they do business with. I just thought that was the most ridiculous interpretation of business I've ever heard in my life.

In regard to her stand against the "big bad corporations out to make a buck at the expense of the good working person" is uneducated as well. Companies (which are mainly huge automotive corporations in Michigan) are outsourcing to remain competitive. It's a global market place - it's not a local thing. What they are doing is trying to keep themselves alive against automotive giants like Toyota who only pay $7/hr wage/benefits vs. our $63/hr. wage benefits. I don't expect all voters to have an mba and understand how this all works, and I'm not saying our Republican candidate was the best, but I felt he was the best person for what Michigan needs now, and that's an intimate understanding of how business and economic development work. I don't need charisma and touchy feely crap - I need economic change. We have considered moving from our state, because it's in such bad shape, and I'd hate to do that because I love it here.

I'm on my way out the door - I'll pop my head in tomorrow (or tonight - depends on how many cocktails I've had) - so if anyone wants to fight, I'll be back (spoken in Arnold Schwarzenegger voice)

squishy · Coach

if my *cough* other threads weren't indicative, i'm thrilled to pieces. there's a power that can actually keep bush in check, and rummy is out of the picture. i'm only wishing something could be done about karl rove, but i can't be too greedy :)

but i'm still scared, too. mostly because nancy pelosi might eff things up royally and screw over the democrats for 2008. i'm also worried about the rampant corruption, and i'm sure the dems are dirty as well... hopefully this election backlash will keep them in check.

valenciana · Dooney & Bourke

my own political feelings aside, i think it's better to have that balance where the president and congress represent different parties. that's one thing that has scared me for the past few years, especially with all the escalating supression of civil liberties. okay, i said i'd keep my own politics out of it, but i lied. anyway, i just think it's good that there's a balance so that no one party can get too carried away. i don't know if that makes you feel better (i guess not, since you're posting this, obviously), but it makes me feel better.

sephorablue · Marc Jacobs

luckylily wrote:

There is no easy answer for either party, and I doubt ANYONE would be able to resolve the issues facing the country very quickly. The election results just give me a little hope that perhaps a different perspective might start to get things turned around. Plus, I'm very liberal on almost all issues, so I personally am just a little bit more comfortable with more Dems in office.

this is EXACTLY how I feel. I don't kid myself that the Dems are saints or geniuses, or ethically superior, or that they have a good solution for Iraq (no one does) or that things are going to get better anytime soon. But I feel exactly how luckylily said--hoping for a new perspective, some fresh voices. Mostly I'm just ecstatic that finally Congress ought to be able to rein in the Bush administration. However you feel about the President's decisions, I think we ALL have reason to be frightened by the power he has wielded throughout his administration--because one of the things that makes this country so remarkable is the commitment, in the original planning for the government structure, to quashing the potential for the development of an autocracy. The civic theory of checks and balances has been nonexistent for as long as he's been in office. I understand why you say you're uneasy at the thought of the President and Congress constantly butting heads, but I'm much more uneasy at the prospect of a President with unchecked power.

Also, the separation of church and state has been nonexistent for the past few years, and that is a barrier I want to see reconstructed absolutely immediately. I suppose some people see this as a fault or a weakness, but at least in current environment, the Democratic party is the more secular of the two, and since I am profoundly uncomfortable with religion and government mixing, a Democratic Congress makes me very, very relieved. I don't care about my civic leaders' faith and "moral values," and I don't want them to care about mine.

Also agree with gingembre's statement that I've been afraid and upset over what's been happening to this country in the past few years, in terms of civil liberties and human rights, and now feel more hopeful that the deterioration of some of the US's founding principles will not continue.

honey · Gucci

i consider myself very liberal, and take no solace in the election results. honestly i'm so disillusioned with the american political system right now...in many ways i don't really think the results are indicative of any real political change or shift in attitude. to me it seems more like when you're little and you ask your mom for something and she says no, so you go ask your dad in hopes that he says yes. that's what i feel like we're doing as a country. i don't mean to sound bleak, but i think it's just going to go back to business as usual.

halleybird · Hermes

honey wrote:

i consider myself very liberal, and take no solace in the election results. honestly i'm so disillusioned with the american political system right now...in many ways i don't really think the results are indicative of any real political change or shift in attitude. to me it seems more like when you're little and you ask your mom for something and she says no, so you go ask your dad in hopes that he says yes. that's what i feel like we're doing as a country. i don't mean to sound bleak, but i think it's just going to go back to business as usual.

I am an independent (lowercase, i.e., no party affliliation, not a member of the Independent party), but I am liberal/left-leaning, and I feel the same way. I am happy about the results, but I feel like most people voted Democrat because they wanted to send a message to the Bush Administration, not because they actually agree. I am also a little worried that things won't change quickly enough, and the opposite effect will happen in 2008 -- people will feel like the Dems couldn't fix what they wanted them to quickly enough, and we'll end up with another Bush-like president.

Aurora · Marc Jacobs

I'm with you Laken. Bf and I are very uneasy right now mainly because we're afraid taxes and prices will go up since we already feel pressure with current prices and taxes anything more would be terrible on us (and we make pretty good $$ too). My bf is also worried about pulling out of Iraq too soon and turning it into another Vietnam.

All I know is that I'm going to pay more attention to what happens in the next couple of years and vote next time since I'll be eligible to vote again.

Hermes

Aurora wrote:

I'm with you Laken. Bf and I are very uneasy right now mainly because we're afraid taxes and prices will go up since we already feel pressure with current prices and taxes anything more would be terrible on us (and we make pretty good $$ too). My bf is also worried about pulling out of Iraq too soon and turning it into another Vietnam.

ditto.

valenciana · Dooney & Bourke

Aurora wrote:

Bf and I are very uneasy right now mainly because we're afraid taxes and prices will go up

They may very well...there is a pretty expensive war to pay for. And isn't this the first time in U.S. history that taxes were actually cut during a war? Not saying I'm happy - I don't like paying taxes anymore than the next person - but just stating that it's certainly likely.

asf · Kate Spade

just curious as to people's thoughts about giuliani forming an exploratory committee for the presidency. he's kind of what you're looking for, laken and D - he's pro-gay rights and pro-choice, but he's pretty fiscally conservative.

laken1 · Hermes

asf wrote:

just curious as to people's thoughts about giuliani forming an exploratory committee for the presidency. he's kind of what you're looking for, laken and D - he's pro-gay rights and pro-choice, but he's pretty fiscally conservative.

I must admit I'm excited at the prospect. But to be honest I know very little about his political stands, only that I get warm & fuzzies over him because of his handling of the 911 situation and the fact that he gets a lot of good press about cleaning up NYC though I don't technically know what that means. I only know the references I have heard over time. I am curious to dig through his stands on issues that are important to me.

I also can't help feeling that one person doesn't make that much of an impact, even if that person is the President - isn't that sad?

I loved reading everyone's responses. The only thing I have to say is that it could ALWAYS get worse. I never assume it's as bad as it can get & any change is a good one. That may also be sad, but we have never lived through the times of our parents & grandparents - never seen true depression or 21% home interest rates. Those things could easily happen again.

Hermes

laken1 wrote:

asf wrote:

just curious as to people's thoughts about giuliani forming an exploratory committee for the presidency. he's kind of what you're looking for, laken and D - he's pro-gay rights and pro-choice, but he's pretty fiscally conservative.

I must admit I'm excited at the prospect. But to be honest I know very little about his political stands, only that I get warm & fuzzies over him because of his handling of the 911 situation and the fact that he gets a lot of good press about cleaning up NYC though I don't technically know what that means. I only know the references I have heard over time. I am curious to dig through his stands on issues that are important to me.

I also can't help feeling that one person doesn't make that much of an impact, even if that person is the President - isn't that sad?

I loved reading everyone's responses. The only thing I have to say is that it could ALWAYS get worse. I never assume it's as bad as it can get & any change is a good one. That may also be sad, but we have never lived through the times of our parents & grandparents - never seen true depression or 21% home interest rates. Those things could easily happen again.

yes - he would be a perfect candidate for my vote, a Republican that supports abortion rights, stem cell research, and same sex unions. Also, look at what he did for NYC - he really cleaned up the corruption. He would also help bridge the rift between the political views of the country. He's up against McCain though...

scarlett · Marc Jacobs

laken1 wrote:

asf wrote:

just curious as to people's thoughts about giuliani forming an exploratory committee for the presidency. he's kind of what you're looking for, laken and D - he's pro-gay rights and pro-choice, but he's pretty fiscally conservative.

I also can't help feeling that one person doesn't make that much of an impact, even if that person is the President - isn't that sad?

I don't think that's sad, exactly -- it's a product of what we've witnessed in politics in our lifetimes. Okay, maybe it is sad, but sad because we haven't seen it ourselves and that has bred cynicism. That said, I truly believe one person can make an enormous impact. If you read about Churchill and FDR during WWII, for instance, or Lincoln during the Civil War, you see the great power of their individual personalities in directly shaping outcomes. All three of those leaders had tenacity and determination in common, as well as the ability to express ideas in a way that inspired people and encouraged unity. None of them were universally loved during their lives, but they had the ability to fire people up in a good way. You can call me cheesy if you want, but I think deep down we need and want to be inspired by our leaders. :)

I moved to NYC during Giuliani's last year in office and he really was remarkable after 9/11. I know some people here hated/hate him, but he did make NYC a safer and more prosperous city during his time as mayor.

As for the recent elections, I'm happy and relieved that we have a change. Politics are cyclical and this proves that no one party can go unchecked forever. I'm an indepdendent and lean liberal on some issues, more conservative on others, and I really hope things take a positive turn now.

laken1 · Hermes

scarlett wrote:I don't think that's sad, exactly -- it's a product of what we've witnessed in politics in our lifetimes. Okay, maybe it is sad, but sad because we haven't seen it ourselves and that has bred cynicism. That said, I truly believe one person can make an enormous impact. If you read about Churchill and FDR during WWII, for instance, or Lincoln during the Civil War, you see the great power of their individual personalities in directly shaping outcomes. All three of those leaders had tenacity and determination in common, as well as the ability to express ideas in a way that inspired people and encouraged unity. None of them were universally loved during their lives, but they had the ability to fire people up in a good way. You can call me cheesy if you want, but I think deep down we need and want to be inspired by our leaders. :)

I don't disagree but those Presidents also didn't serve under a blanket of media scrutiny or a televised war. We get in an uproar every day that soldiers are killed - and should - but no one did this in those wars because they didn't get daily footage or body counts - it was "after the fact" that they knew what had happened. I just know that in ANY job if every single action you made every single day was questioned, you'd be an ineffective leader no matter what industry you were in. This is one of the few jobs where that happens. It makes it that much harder to be effective.

I completely want to be inspired by my leaders. I have been watching the previews for the new movie Bobby & the hope people had in the Kennedy's - I'm too young to remember that but am curious to see why they thought they would make a difference. I just think we live in a different world & can't feel that way about the leaders anymore. I am a firm believer that someone that would be effective can't get elected to an office because if they are honest & don't play both sides they will lose. We need someone that will stick to their guns but our voting system isn't set up to work that way - you know?

scarlett · Marc Jacobs

laken1 wrote:

scarlett wrote:I don't think that's sad, exactly -- it's a product of what we've witnessed in politics in our lifetimes. Okay, maybe it is sad, but sad because we haven't seen it ourselves and that has bred cynicism. That said, I truly believe one person can make an enormous impact. If you read about Churchill and FDR during WWII, for instance, or Lincoln during the Civil War, you see the great power of their individual personalities in directly shaping outcomes. All three of those leaders had tenacity and determination in common, as well as the ability to express ideas in a way that inspired people and encouraged unity. None of them were universally loved during their lives, but they had the ability to fire people up in a good way. You can call me cheesy if you want, but I think deep down we need and want to be inspired by our leaders. :)

I don't disagree but those Presidents also didn't serve under a blanket of media scrutiny or a televised war. We get in an uproar every day that soldiers are killed - and should - but no one did this in those wars because they didn't get daily footage or body counts - it was "after the fact" that they knew what had happened. I just know that in ANY job if every single action you made every single day was questioned, you'd be an ineffective leader no matter what industry you were in. This is one of the few jobs where that happens. It makes it that much harder to be effective.

I completely want to be inspired by my leaders. I have been watching the previews for the new movie Bobby & the hope people had in the Kennedy's - I'm too young to remember that but am curious to see why they thought they would make a difference. I just think we live in a different world & can't feel that way about the leaders anymore. I am a firm believer that someone that would be effective can't get elected to an office because if they are honest & don't play both sides they will lose. We need someone that will stick to their guns but our voting system isn't set up to work that way - you know?

I don't disagree with you either -- I was actually thinking about "Bobby" when I wrote the above. I wasn't born until the late '70s so I didn't experience that era but it does sound like people see that as a last gasp of idealism.

I agree that we see much more intense media scrutiny these days than Lincoln or FDR experienced, but they still had media scrutiny and naysayers. I'm going to expose my nerd history buff self here, but journalists wrote very critical, false things about Lincoln and people absolutely did protest the insanely high casualties of the Civil War and were always pressuring him to stop the conflict -- the riots in New York City after the draft was instated, for instance. I don't know as much about WWII but there was a big movement in the US to not get involved in that war.

Anyway, it does seem like it's so hard now for someone to be in politics and not be full of a lot of BS and game playing.

sephorablue · Marc Jacobs

scarlett wrote:

I moved to NYC during Giuliani's last year in office and he really was remarkable after 9/11. I know some people here hated/hate him, but he did make NYC a safer and more prosperous city during his time as mayor.

The way he behaved after 9/11 was an example of what a leader SHOULD be. It's been a few years now so I don't remember many details, but I do remember being incredibly grateful to have him, and incredibly impressed with the way he handled things. I remember reading some commentary, I think in the New Yorker, where the writer said something to the effect that in the aftermath of what happened, when those of us here in the city were all frightened and grief-stricken and confused, he was like our father, and I remember agreeing. He was right down in the thick of things when the towers fell, not hiding away in some office uptown-- I remember him talking about making a mad run for it to escape the cloud of dust and debris. I don't remember any grandstanding or posturing or bombastic speech-making in the wake of the disaster, but I remember his grief and his resolution. I'd be very happy to have him as president--I agree with many of his positions and he's an excellent leader. We sure as hell can do worse!

laken1 · Hermes

scarlett wrote:I agree that we see much more intense media scrutiny these days than Lincoln or FDR experienced, but they still had media scrutiny and naysayers. I'm going to expose my nerd history buff self here, but journalists wrote very critical, false things about Lincoln and people absolutely did protest the insanely high casualties of the Civil War and were always pressuring him to stop the conflict -- the riots in New York City after the draft was instated, for instance. I don't know as much about WWII but there was a big movement in the US to not get involved in that war.

Thanks for the info & I don't think you are nerdy for knowing that - I must brush up on my history so I can spew out such details.