STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

Kitty · Hermes

Help me think of an excuse..

ILoveChoo · Hermes

Hm, maybe say you're really busy at work and can't take a break but you could leave the disk at the front desk?

kenzie · Chanel

This kind of thing has happened to me at my job with customers (as you may have read in previous posts). I just remain professional with them and tell the that I'm too busy with work and that the document, cd, whatever is already in the mail for them. I have also left things with the receptionist before and told her that when the person comes to pick them up to tell them that I'm out of the office or in a meeting if they ask to see me.

-- Edited by kenzie at 17:46, 2006-07-05

Kitty · Hermes

Thanks guys! That's good advice about leaving it up front with the receptionist.

Dizzy · Marc Jacobs

I would read this as just networking. He hasn't said anything flirty, right? If you get a vibe, that's one thing. But taking a professional out to coffee or lunch isn't really that big of a deal. Dinner a deux is a no-no, and drinks are only if you've known eachother a long time. That was the code in my old work environment, anyway...

Oh, and telling him you're busy is like telling him you don't think he's worth networking with - which can cause hurt feelings and repercussions. If you're really worried that he is flirting, just say that you and your boyfriend need to take he and his wife out sometime, and maybe extend an invite to a group thing for he and WIFE.

kenzie · Chanel

Dizzy wrote:

I would read this as just networking. He hasn't said anything flirty, right? If you get a vibe, that's one thing. But taking a professional out to coffee or lunch isn't really that big of a deal. Dinner a deux is a no-no, and drinks are only if you've known eachother a long time. That was the code in my old work environment, anyway... Oh, and telling him you're busy is like telling him you don't think he's worth networking with - which can cause hurt feelings and repercussions. If you're really worried that he is flirting, just say that you and your boyfriend need to take he and his wife out sometime, and maybe extend an invite to a group thing for he and WIFE.

I agree, but the impression that I'm getting from the original post was that it is coming across as flirting. Networking is one thing, but there does come a point when it crosses the line. I've had plenty of business lunches/coffees, but there have been definite times where I've gotten a vibe that wasn't strictly business. I was assuming that this was the vibe that Kitty was getting when I first responded.

laken1 · Hermes

I couldn't agree with kenzie more - I was trying to figure out how to word the exact same thought. You know the difference.

Kitty · Hermes

Dizzy wrote:

I would read this as just networking. He hasn't said anything flirty, right? If you get a vibe, that's one thing. But taking a professional out to coffee or lunch isn't really that big of a deal. Dinner a deux is a no-no, and drinks are only if you've known eachother a long time. That was the code in my old work environment, anyway...

Oh, and telling him you're busy is like telling him you don't think he's worth networking with - which can cause hurt feelings and repercussions. If you're really worried that he is flirting, just say that you and your boyfriend need to take he and his wife out sometime, and maybe extend an invite to a group thing for he and WIFE.

Well, I work for the distance education segment of a university and he's someone who's earned a MS degree through us and continues to take courses. I'm not really sure what type of networking that would be? But anyway, yeah, that's what I was afraid of..that it was just a friendly thing. Although, I'm really good at reading people and I'm pretty sure it was more than that. Especially since all his emails have winking faces in them.

Kitty · Hermes

kenzie wrote:

Dizzy wrote:
I would read this as just networking. He hasn't said anything flirty, right? If you get a vibe, that's one thing. But taking a professional out to coffee or lunch isn't really that big of a deal. Dinner a deux is a no-no, and drinks are only if you've known eachother a long time. That was the code in my old work environment, anyway... Oh, and telling him you're busy is like telling him you don't think he's worth networking with - which can cause hurt feelings and repercussions. If you're really worried that he is flirting, just say that you and your boyfriend need to take he and his wife out sometime, and maybe extend an invite to a group thing for he and WIFE.
I agree, but the impression that I'm getting from the original post was that it is coming across as flirting. Networking is one thing, but there does come a point when it crosses the line. I've had plenty of business lunches/coffees, but there have been definite times where I've gotten a vibe that wasn't strictly business. I was assuming that this was the vibe that Kitty was getting when I first responded.

I am definitely getting that vibe....

FashionPrincess · Hermes

IMO, it's never acceptable for a married person to have lunch/coffee/ride in a vehicle/do anything alone with someone of the opposite sex. Even if it's just innocent, it gives the appearance of something else and can lead to rumors and sometimes can foster a friendship that can lead to feelings that they shouldn't be having.

Kelly · Hermes

Kitty wrote:

Especially since all his emails have winking faces in them.

haha!

I'm not sure that I would tell him it's inappropriate, because even if he was trying to be flirty, he could pretend that he wasn't. And what if he truly is trying to be friendly? I know a few different men who are just flirty all the time. It's like they don't know how to befriend women except by being flirty. It took me a long time to realize that some guys are just like that, and they don't actually mean harm by it.

Could you leave it with the receptionist, and if he asks to see you, you could come out? But if he says "let's get coffee," just tell him that you really can't right now (but don't say you wish you could, of course!) I don't think he can be offended, if he comes to your office in the middle of a workday, he can't expect you to be able to drop everything and go out to get coffee with him!

kenzie · Chanel

FashionPrincess wrote:

IMO, it's never acceptable for a married person to have lunch/coffee/ride in a vehicle/do anything alone with someone of the opposite sex. Even if it's just innocent, it gives the appearance of something else and can lead to rumors and sometimes can foster a friendship that can lead to feelings that they shouldn't be having.

I'm curious, FP--- I've had several business lunches with men to discuss work related things , including my boss (who is married) and several other managers and/or co-workers. Sometimes you can get more accomplished when you step out of the office and away from the frenzy. My industry is dominated by men; less than 10% of the employees are female industry wide, so this kind of thing for me is unavoidable.

I personally, do not think that business lunches are inappropriate. I'm curious as to your take on that.

-- Edited by kenzie at 22:09, 2006-07-05

FashionPrincess · Hermes

kenzie wrote:

I personally, do not think that business lunches are inappropriate. I'm curious as to your take on that. -- Edited by kenzie at 22:09, 2006-07-05

Yup, sorry, I still think that is inappropriate. I've known way too many people that have started that way and then they start to feel feelings for the single person they are spending time with. My husband works for the largest retailer's home office and his boss is a female and they are friends and I know her and there would never be anything there, but even he won't ride with her alone in the car from one office building to another for a meeting, he'll either grab a third person to ride along or he'll drive separate. I don't think people that do this are bad people or anything but I think this leads to a lot of affairs, they start out innocent and people don't even realize the door they're opening.

kenzie · Chanel

FashionPrincess wrote:

kenzie wrote: I personally, do not think that business lunches are inappropriate. I'm curious as to your take on that. -- Edited by kenzie at 22:09, 2006-07-05 Yup, sorry, I still think that is inappropriate. I've known way too many people that have started that way and then they start to feel feelings for the single person they are spending time with. My husband works for the largest retailer's home office and his boss is a female and they are friends and I know her and there would never be anything there, but even he won't ride with her alone in the car from one office building to another for a meeting, he'll either grab a third person to ride along or he'll drive separate. I don't think people that do this are bad people or anything but I think this leads to a lot of affairs, they start out innocent and people don't even realize the door they're opening.

Hmmm...when I started working for my company, part of the training process was that each manager took me out to lunch to discuss what they do and how it relates to my job and the company. All of these managers are married. I don't really think anything of it since they are all much older than me.

ETA: Sorry to hijack your thread, Kitty, but it seems that you got the answer to your initial post.

-- Edited by kenzie at 07:10, 2006-07-06

Dizzy · Marc Jacobs

Ok, if there's nothing to network (he's a STUDENT? And it's not like he's trying to get into your field or anything...) and then he's sending WINKY faces? Yeah, that's weird.

As for networking, I know it's a good idea to be careful, but I think never spending time alone with the opposite sex could really hurt women at work. Like Kenzie said, if you're in a male-dominated field, you're going to miss a LOT of opportunities to develop relationships. Of course, getting a rep for sleeping your way to the top doesn't do anything good either - so there's definitely a case to be made for being as circumspect as possible. I like the no-riding-together-in-one-car rule, just because that IS a good way for rumors to start. I do like to meet people one one one for coffee and lunch, though. I just always make sure it's in SUCH a public place - like across the street from the office - so that people can't think we're trying to get time alone or sneaking around or anything like that.

-- Edited by Dizzy at 22:59, 2006-07-05

travelgirl · Kate Spade

FashionPrincess wrote:

IMO, it's never acceptable for a married person to have lunch/coffee/ride in a vehicle/do anything alone with someone of the opposite sex. Even if it's just innocent, it gives the appearance of something else and can lead to rumors and sometimes can foster a friendship that can lead to feelings that they shouldn't be having.

I am glad to hear someone else say this. I have always felt this way as well. There are times when this can't be avoided (like if your boss is the opposite sex and you have to work with him, do a ride-along, whatever) but for lunch or coffee I don't like it. I wouldn't feel comfortable meeting up with a married guy and I would not be happy with my DH doing the same. I agree that it can start innocently enough but end up fostering innappropriate "friendships".

Kelly · Hermes

travelgirl wrote:

FashionPrincess wrote:
IMO, it's never acceptable for a married person to have lunch/coffee/ride in a vehicle/do anything alone with someone of the opposite sex. Even if it's just innocent, it gives the appearance of something else and can lead to rumors and sometimes can foster a friendship that can lead to feelings that they shouldn't be having.

I am glad to hear someone else say this. I have always felt this way as well. There are times when this can't be avoided (like if your boss is the opposite sex and you have to work with him, do a ride-along, whatever) but for lunch or coffee I don't like it. I wouldn't feel comfortable meeting up with a married guy and I would not be happy with my DH doing the same. I agree that it can start innocently enough but end up fostering innappropriate "friendships".

It suprised me to read you guys saying this, not in a bad way, but it's just not an opinion I think I've encountered before, at least not to this extent. I know people get uncomfortable if their SO spends too much time alone with the same member of the opposite sex, but I don't know anyone who goes out of their way so much to avoid it, especially for career-related things like private lunch meetings or riding in the car together.

I think I would have a real problem if I was with someone who couldn't handle me going out with my male friends - it would be a problem to the point that if he didn't want me to be alone with my guy friends, I'd have to end it with him. Too many of my close friends are men, and I definitely wouldn't give that up for a BF. I always go out to eat or watch movies etc. with my guy friends, whether they're single or not. I don't hide it from anyone I'm dating, but I wouldn't stop just because a boyfriend asked me to.

It's even uncomfortable to be dating someone who doesn't keep in touch with his ex girlfriends. My very best friend is a guy I used to date, so obviously we spend a lot of time together, a large portion of that alone. I couldn't see spending so much time caring for someone just to throw it away because it didn't work out romantically. Obviously right after the breakup it's hard, but after that I expect my ex boyfriends to stay in touch with me, and I'm hurt if they don't. I expect anyone I date to keep in touch with their ex girlfriends, and it would kind of be a red flag for me if they didn't. I don't want to be with someone who can find people so disposable. I can understand that sometimes a relationship or a breakup was so scarring or horrible that a friendship can't be built out of it. But I would like someone I'm dating to be on friendly terms with the majority of their exes. And I definitely expect them to be okay with the fact that I am.

I could see drawing lines with an SO, like I don't want you out late alone with your ex or drinking with her or hiding the fact that you're with her. If I was married, the "rules" might be stricter just because I wouldn't want other people talking. But I wouldn't ever want someone who completely avoided time alone with the opposite sex.

-- Edited by ttara123 at 01:06, 2006-07-06

JoceyBaby23 · Gucci

FashionPrincess wrote:

kenzie wrote: I personally, do not think that business lunches are inappropriate. I'm curious as to your take on that. -- Edited by kenzie at 22:09, 2006-07-05 Yup, sorry, I still think that is inappropriate. I've known way too many people that have started that way and then they start to feel feelings for the single person they are spending time with. My husband works for the largest retailer's home office and his boss is a female and they are friends and I know her and there would never be anything there, but even he won't ride with her alone in the car from one office building to another for a meeting, he'll either grab a third person to ride along or he'll drive separate. I don't think people that do this are bad people or anything but I think this leads to a lot of affairs, they start out innocent and people don't even realize the door they're opening.

Obviously everyone is entitled their opinion..

Here is mine.

I work in Corporate America.. in sales for a software company. (a male-dominated industry) Not only do I go out to lunch with male co-workers and bosses.. I meet with them privately for meetings, reviews, brainstorming sessions, etc. I have also traveled all over the country with male co-workers to go to conferences and seminars.. I have even been on trips to Vegas with a male co-worker for a work-related function. Sometimes others join us.. sometimes not. I think it is ridiculous to avoid all "alone" time with a co-worker or boss just because they are of the opposite sex. In the corporate world, these situations are unavoidable. I would be considered rude and VERY strange if I went out of my way to drive separately or refused to go out for coffee with my boss alone. Honestly, doing this would VERY much hinder my success and potential for advancement at my company. We are social people and some of the best "work" conversations I have ever had with my boss have been at lunch.. just the two of us.

I think it is a little old-fashioned to expect that a bf or husband avoid these situations. In past jobs, I have known men whose wives have "laid down the law" trying to limit their contact with female co-workers. And it just doesn't work. The wives are seen as controlling, demanding, unrealistic, jealous and insecure. (I am by no means saying this is FP, but I have known woman who feel this way and demand control over all of their husband's female interaction and those women are all of those things.)

And I disagree that this is how "affairs" begin. I'm sorry, but you can control your feelings for someone... especially in the workplace. It is inappropriate NOT to control your feelings in the workplace or anywhere, if the other person is attached or married.

Cheating is 100% A CHOICE! Men and women who are trustworthy do not need to limit their contact with co-workers of the opposite sex. And a man who has self-control and dignity.. not to mention respect for his wife, should not have to avoid female interaction at work.

FashionPrincess · Hermes

JoceyBaby23 wrote:

In past jobs, I have known men whose wives have "laid down the law" trying to limit their contact with female co-workers. And it just doesn't work. The wives are seen as controlling, demanding, unrealistic, jealous and insecure. (I am by no means saying this is FP, but I have known woman who feel this way and demand control over all of their husband's female interaction and those women are all of those things.) And I disagree that this is how "affairs" begin. And a man who has self-control and dignity.. not to mention respect for his wife, should not have to avoid female interaction at work.

That's the thing, I didn't/haven't/never would "lay down the law" with my husband, it is a choice he makes out of respect for me and I do the same. I never even asked him or suggested he do it. And he doesn't avoid conversations/meetings alone with his boss/other females in a professional work environment where it is proper.

And I have known more than one affair that has started this way.

JoceyBaby23 · Gucci

FashionPrincess wrote:

That's the thing, I didn't/haven't/never would "lay down the law" with my husband, it is a choice he makes out of respect for me and I do the same. I never even asked him or suggested he do it. And he doesn't avoid conversations/meetings alone with his boss/other females in a professional work environment where it is proper. And I have known more than one affair that has started this way.

I don't see you as the kind of person who would "lay down the law" either. So I'm not implying that you are one of "them". I'm glad that choice works for both of you because I don't know many relationships that work well that way.

Let me ask another question if I may.. just because I want to understand and play a little devil's adocate at the same time.

If you found out that your hubby had riden in a car with a woman to a lunch meeting and they were alone..

Would you be mad at him? You wouldn't automatically think that he was cheating, would you?