STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

lovelygirl · Kenneth Cole

Interfaith Relationships/Marriages?

Hermione · Kate Spade

i don't have any stories, but funnily enough i was raised catholic and i almost just got into a relationship with a guy who was raised muslim -

anyway, one thing i knew straight off is that once we started getting to the point where we were even contemplating marriage, that would be a big question - be sure you're on the same page with how you'll raise the kids - don't wait till they're here to find out!

Bastet · Kate Spade

I'm Episcopalian and my hubby is was raised Jewish but is now kind of agnostic/"generically spiritual." Most of the issues we've encountered have been due to other people's reaction to our marriage. My family was a little surprised that I would marry a guy from a Jewish family, but they got over it. Some of my more Christian friends were suprised I could marry someone who didn't believe in Jesus, but they got over it. I think it would have been a lot harder if our families had been opposed to our getting married because as much as you might want to shrug off what your parents think, sometimes it's hard.

The most important thing, IMO, is to talk about everything before you get married. I.e. the fact that one of you will/will not be converting, how children will be raised, etc. Just get everything out in the open before you get married. A lot of interfaith couples have some problems when kids are born because sometimes they get more religious and want the kid to be their religion, and usually their parents put a lot of pressure on them to have the baby baptized (if Christian), etc.

blink · Coach

I agree with Bastet, other than in-laws, the bigger potential problem with an interfaith family is in the future with children. But if you can strongly agree to ignore the in-laws opinions about what you should or need to teach your children, you are half way there already.

Drew · Gucci

Bastet wrote:

The most important thing, IMO, is to talk about everything before you get married. I.e. the fact that one of you will/will not be converting, how children will be raised, etc. Just get everything out in the open before you get married. A lot of interfaith couples have some problems when kids are born because sometimes they get more religious and want the kid to be their religion, and usually their parents put a lot of pressure on them to have the baby baptized (if Christian), etc.

Yep. Don't assume anything. Lay all of your and his expectations for all future situations on the table. Especially, consider how you two will handle family issues. My DH and I learned that families do indeed impact relationships of couples so make sure you are strong enough to handle worst case scenarios, like his family expecting you to convert and raise your children as Muslims. If this isn't your intention make sure you know how you will handle his family when they begin to pressure you (and they will, that's how inlaws are). It goes both ways too, so make sure you'll be ok with how your family would react too. Good luck, this isn't easy. I know you say your both not particularly devout, but just make sure this is the case becuase from what I have heard about devout Muslim men who date Christians they do not marry those who will not convert and raise their children as Muslims (just what I've seen/heard).

lovelygirl · Kenneth Cole

Thanks for the advice girls-- I really appreciate it. This issue has been really stressing me out lately and I think my friends are tired of hearing me talk about it :) It's nice to get some objective advice.

My initial concern about my bf was totally what you mentioned Drew. It took us a few months to decide to date because I was scared that he would never actually consider marrying me. We decided to go for it because (1) he really isn't that devout-- he is an agnostic-- so we figured that the Muslim thing should not be an issue and (2) there was just too much love there to let go.

So 2 and a half years later, here we are. I know that his family might pressure me to convert, but my boyfriend is being very understanding and supportive. He told his parents that the decision should be up to me and I know he will honor my decision and never make me feel bad about it. I looked into converting because I felt that I owed to him and to me to explore all my options but I just don't feel comfortable with it. I would be doing it just to get married and that feels so disingenous. Besides, why should I convert if neither of us is particularly religious?

What we're talking about now is a way to introduce our children to our two different faiths/backgrounds/cultures. We're trying to address all the issues now because as all of you said, we know that after marriage is not the time to discuss this! I'm still really paranoid that his parents are going to hate me. I HATE the thought that his parents will be resentful that he didn't marry a Muslim girl-- I hope they will give me a fair chance. Hopefully it will all work out-- this is a lot tougher than I imagined it would be when we first started dating.

-- Edited by lovelygirl at 14:36, 2006-05-10

Kelly · Hermes

I'm not married, but I'm Catholic I've dated two Muslim guys (poignant, eh?), in fact they were the only ones I was serious enough with to bother taking the road trip home to meet my family. While neither of their families were super religious, I was actually kind of afraid of what my family would think of me dating them. While I think my family would have preferred me to get serious with a Catholic guy, they were actually a lot more accepting of it than I had anticipated. My brother was the only one who actually wanted to talk to me about it because he disapproved, and it was more of the "how will you raise your children if it comes to that" than his concern about our relationship in and of itself. I know some of my cousins, aunts, etc. talked, but it wasn't at all as bad as I thought it would be. Surely once his family meets you and is treated to your sparkling personality, they'll realize that you're a good person, outside of your religious beliefs.

gingembre1 · Kate Spade

My parents have an interfaith marriage - Catholic (my dad) and Protestant (my mom). It created a lot of problems for them. For one, my father's family has always tried to push Catholicism on us, and they've always disapproved of my mom. I say disapproved, but that's a rather weak word for the state of relations between my mom and my dad's family. My dad is not a practicing Catholic, and hasn't been since before they were married, but it still influences his views/behavior, as my mom's Protestant upbringing influences hers. It was also uncomfortable for both of them whenever we've had to attend any church services over the years. One of them always feels uncomfortable if it's the other's faith. It's hard to get a sense of how the issues of religion have affected our family in writing, because you can't quite sum it all up into a few sentences. It's very complicated, has created big rifts between my immediate family and my dad's side, etc. And this is a marriage between two people who are not practicing. Just goes to show how strongly your upbringing can influence you the rest of your life! My dad's Catholic upbringing has also created a lot of personal problems between my parents, but as they're very personal, I won't go into them here.

As for the issue of how to raise the kids...Traditionally children follow the religion of the mother. I attended Protestant church as a child, but my mother's loss of faith in organized religion stopped that. I've grown up with the good values that religion can impart, but without the dogma. I think that children should be exposed to both sides, but it's a tough call.

Finally, I would take his family's wanting you to convert as a sign of problems down the line. Religion is obviously pretty important to them, and personally this would be a big red flag for me. You said that you're not comfortable converting - would you be uncomfortable if your children were raised Muslim? And vice versa, would your future husband be comfortable with Catholic children? Either way, one of you will be closed out of your childrens' religious education.

Okay, that was super long, but this issue hits very close to home!

lovelygirl · Kenneth Cole

Thanks for your response gingembre1-- I really appreciate you sharing your story with me. I can really relate as the religion issue has created a lot of problems with us I hadn't foreseen. It's amazing how big of a role religion can play with two people who are not religous!

The conversion issue did raise a bit of a red flag with me. After I studied the religion and decided that converting was not for me, I told my boyfriend that I would not be pressured into converting and that I did NOT want the children to be raised Muslim. I felt sort of guilty about this because converting is obviously the easiest solution. But it felt too disingenous and unfair so my decision is final.

My preference is that the children be raised exposed to both Catholicism and Islam as they are both big parts of our cultural background and identity. But I don't want the children indoctrinated into one religion or another. My boyfriend agrees with this. I know some may say that this creates mixed-up kids, but it seems like the only fair solution to me. I know his parents may not like this, but his parents have already told him that they would accept if I decided that I didn't want to convert.

Whether they will accept this happily is a whole other story-- I haven't met them yet (although I'm meeting them soon) so I don't know how the dynamic will be. They seem like quality people, if a bit traditional and conservative, so I'm hoping that there will be some eventual understanding and acceptance.

sephorablue · Marc Jacobs

lovelygirl wrote:

I know some may say that this creates mixed-up kids

I think anybody who would say this isn't giving your hypothetical children enough credit. I think that with you and he giving the issue this much thought before marriage, you will come up with a sound plan for introducing the children to both of your beliefs, and letting the kids take it from there. I certainly think it's possible to have parents of differing faiths and to recognize the value in both of those faiths, even though some of their teachings are different. Because, after all, at the core, many of their teachings are the same, too. I think if you emphasize the core values and spirituality that are important to you both, it will make perfect sense.

I dated a guy who was raised Muslim--not that it matters for the sake of this story, but it happens that he was. His parents were both devout but not conservative, if that makes any sense--they came here from Pakistan in the 70's and when they had him, they decided to instill their religion in him but to raise him as an American boy, not a Pakistani boy living in America. When he was small they scrapped the Arabic name they'd given him at his birth for, hilariously enough, a nice Irish name. He really embraced the spiritual aspect of the religion, but he said that Islam was ultimately just the vehicle that he chose for his spirituality; he felt that sprituality would have been a big part of his life no matter what faith he had been raised in. So I think your kids could very well arrive at the same mindset.

-- Edited by sephorablue at 19:28, 2006-05-10

Maddie · Coach

I have limited experience in this, but just my two cents...

I have a TON of friends who were raised with one Jewish parent and one Christian parent. It really hasn't been that big of a deal for them, they just celebrate both holidays. And I think the kids have a tendency to drift toward whatever religion speaks to them most, or no religion. If it's not important to you what religion they end up being, I don't think it's too much of an issue. And the people I know certainly aren't "mixed up."

Also, my mom's family is pretty Catholic and my dad's parents are atheists. I guess I was raised agnostic, but religion was never a big deal at all. I'm sure my mom's parents pushed for us to be raised Catholic, but what were they going to do?

I actually thought of another girl I know who is the child of Irish (Catholic) and Iranian (Muslim) immigrants. She was raised as not particularly devout in either religion. However, her parents really pressured her fiance to convert to Islam and he ended up doing so and is now more religious than she is.

-- Edited by Maddie at 19:47, 2006-05-10

honey · Gucci

Maddie wrote:

I have limited experience in this, but just my two cents... I have a TON of friends who were raised with one Jewish parent and one Christian parent. It really hasn't been that big of a deal for them, they just celebrate both holidays. And I think the kids have a tendency to drift toward whatever religion speaks to them most, or no religion. If it's not important to you what religion they end up being, I don't think it's too much of an issue. And the people I know certainly aren't "mixed up."

i agree with this, and i would consider myself a religious person. ultimately it is up to the child to choose which faith, if any, he or she decides to follow.

to me i think the bigger issue when it comes to children is how supportive the parents of the faith. for me if i were in an inter-faith marriage, it would be more important to me that my family (hubby & kids) participated in the major holidays of each religion and respected them. i.e. if i married a jewish guy, i would want our family to celebrate passover & easter, and not have it just become a situation where easter was "my" holiday and passover was "my husbands." i think preventing that sort of divide would do more to create a harmonious household than anything else, but obvs this is all hypothetical.

Bastet · Kate Spade

Another thing I thought of: what kind of marriage ceremony would you have? My cousin (Protestant) married a Muslim guy, neither of them converted. They decided on a civil ceremony because each set of parents insisted that the wedding be exclusively their religion. They were under so much pressure from their parents that they decided to have a judge marry them because neither of them were particularly devout. If you and your bf do decide to get married, you might want to prepare for a proxy war that your and his parents will fight through you and him. It's sucky, but it might happen. There are lots of books out there about interfaith wedding ceremonies. If you're in a large city, there might even be Catholic and Muslim clergy people who work together to do interfaith ceremonies. I know there are Protestant ministers and Rabbis who team up for such weddings.

I know that in the scheme of things, wedding planning is kind of trivial, but for some reason parents hold grudges about how the wedding plays out. I can't even begin to understand why, but they take it very personally. *especially* if it's their only child.

-- Edited by Bastet at 09:38, 2006-05-11

Drew · Gucci

Read through this forum and the archives for a lot more insight.

http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-rlinterracia

lovelygirl · Kenneth Cole

Thanks so much for the responses everyone. It is definitely heartening to know that children of interfaith marriages don't necessarily have to end up confused or without a set identity. I feel like that my boyfriend and I would take care to teach our children about each of our respective backgrounds and faiths and that the children would be the richer for it. And that someday they could choose the religion that best spoke to them.

I've already prepared myself for any potential fights that may ensue over the wedding. I think a civil ceremony with a judge would be the fairest solution. I feel that his parents and my parents wil be supportive-- I think we will get the biggest flak from extended family. But oh well-- it's MY wedding and I suppose I can't get caught up in everyone else's complaints.

But it is kind of depressing to think about how much drama this is all causing when in the end it's just two people who love each other very much. I'm really hoping that there won't be too much resentment or anger or complaining and that people can just be happy for us somehow.

Drew-- thanks for the iVillage link. I will definitely have to check that forum out!

FashionPrincess · Hermes

I didn't read everyone's post, but here is my 2 cents on interfaith marriages:

I think the most important thing is that you and your boyfriend are on the same page, since marriage is two becoming one it is important to see eye to eye on important things such as faith or lack thereof. Because if not, it can and will cause discourse in your marriage. So ultimately what I'm saying is it is more important what the two of you agree than the families. And it is important for the future kids to see stability, not mom says this and dad says that. I think it is a good sign that the two of you are hashing this all out now. Good luck!

blubirde · Chanel

My boyfriend and I discussed this very issue recently. Not that we're planning on getting married or having kids or anything but it just came up. He's Catholic and I'm not religious at all. He's non-practicing but he started talking about how he enjoyed growing up Catholic etc. It's my opinion (and now it's his) that it's the kid's decision what faith, if any, they choose.

Basically if I had a kid, regardless of my opinions, I would introduce them to all types of religions. We'd go to Temple, Sunday Mass, Protestant church, a Buddhist temple, take classes on Islam, explore Hinduism, etc. In the end, if I had a kid, I'd want them to choose the spiritual path best suited for them. Or not, whatever they choose. I'd support them in whatever their decision was because of all the different religious experiences I'd make sure s/he had. (I use the term "religious experience" loosely, of course.)

Basically my parents' religious choices are not for me, even though they're fine for them, and I don't know necessarily that any kid I raise will feel the same way about religion that I do, so who am I to dictate? My role as a parent (if I so choose) is to help the kid explore as many options as possible so it can make its own informed choice.

FWIW, I think it's great y'all are discussing this now.

Renee · Kenneth Cole

Great discussion!

Our marriage is not interfaith (we're both Jewish) but we faced many of the problems an interfaith couple goes through, because he is very religious and I am not at all. We were friends for a longest time and didn't date because this seemed like an impossible gap for both of us. When we did start dating, both sets of parents were very unhappy. His mother of course was expecting an Orthodox bride (and told me as much), and my mother didn't expect a person who will not be able to eat her food! We did talk about everything beforehand and arrived at many compromises. From my side, this meant becoming more observant, though not, by any means, Orthodox (I didn't mind this part). From his side, this meant not interfering with things I want to do which are not orthodox (e.g. my house is totally kosher, but outside I eat whatever I want), and making his peace with the fact that I do not come to the synagogue. We also talked about the children's upbringing, but even though we talked and talked about this I believe there will be tension. We've been going strong for 7 years (married for 5), but there have always been problems due to the fact that we come from different backgrounds. It helps a lot that we have very similar ethical positions on most things.

One of my very good friends has broken up with 3 potential husbands due to the fact that she is Christian Orthodox and will not compromise on children's upbringing. Most people, even when they don't mind updating their own lifestyle, are very adamant when it comes to the ideal of raising children. Real life is, of course, more complicated and hopefully, easier to navigate than one's ideals.

In the end, it will all depend on you and your partner, how good a communicaiton you have, and how open-minded you're prepared to be without becoming bitter. I have seen unlikely marriages thrive, and "equal" marriages break up, and vice versa. In my case, being close friends , not just marriage partners, got us through many hard times.