STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

Dizzy · Marc Jacobs

A dating theory...

Maat · Kenneth Cole

Interesting theory. You are probably right. Yes, I know exactly the feeling you are talking about. I avoid this type of guy completely nowadays although I am starting to get the feeling the guy I am talking to is one of these guys.

laken1 · Hermes

Wow....
Just wow...

I know who you are talking about. I left him 2 years ago to marry the normal guy with no drama that I never thought I'd have.

The guy you are talking about? still calls my friends on ocassion "just to make sure I'm really happy".

I never thought of it your way.

-- Edited by laken1 at 18:18, 2006-02-12

blink · Coach

I think guys like that don't like girls who are not a challenge, which I think is a pretty natural thing. I happened to tell guys not to fall in love with me, and somehow, when I did that, the opposite would happen. Just so happens that I was aloof with my husband, I actually did like him a lot too, so when he decided to get serious about me after he realized I wasn't going to commit easily, I was all about it.

blubirde · Chanel

Yes!! I've been with that guy! And I said "not into relationships right now" and he said "okay." Then he starts doing all coupley things, like you said. So I decide maybe I could reevaluate. So I talk to him about it, the reasonable thing, right? He assures me he means nothing by it because remember? I'm not into relationships right now? We play this game a few more times and I decide to move on and find someone I actually like for real and what does he do? Call and whine. Why can't I see you anymore, blubirde? Why don't we hang out? I miss you... blah, blah, blah. Too late, buddy. I hate you now.

I think this guy is seriously insecure and in no way actually likes us more than any other girl. We're just the one he can/can't have and that's the thrill of it for them. We just happened to be the ones that fell into their webs. It could have been any female. How'd we get so damn lucky??

Dizzy · Marc Jacobs

lorelei wrote:

I think guys like that don't like girls who are not a challenge, which I think is a pretty natural thing. I happened to tell guys not to fall in love with me, and somehow, when I did that, the opposite would happen. Just so happens that I was aloof with my husband, I actually did like him a lot too, so when he decided to get serious about me after he realized I wasn't going to commit easily, I was all about it.

This is not the guy I'm talking about - and everyone loves a challenge, but that's a different dynamic. I'm talking about the guy, who, in an extreme example, slept with a friend of mine for NINE MONTHS, all the while insisting, despite the fact that they were together almost every day and everyone assumed they were a couple, that they were not a couple. Y'all, my friend is not a needy, desperate person. She is gorgeous, could pose for playboy and has a super-high gpa. This guy freaked whenever she tried to hang out with another guy, flipped if she didn't call for a few days, and promised almost everything but a commitment (he just wasn't ready after having had his heart broken sometime about a year before they got together). THEN this guy sent a message on friendster to a girl who was also in my friend's account about hooking up. He also paraded the girl in front of mutual friends. And when confronted, guess what he said? You guessed it "I said I didn't want a commitment..."

BUT HE ACTED LIKE HE DID. And he totally rubbed the cheating in her face. Just to drive her crazy. I think HE"S the one that needed the attention.

Hermione · Kate Spade

Holy crap you are describing that guy i've posted about on here to a TEE.

that is completely ridiculous.

i wish i could see what he's talking to all those naked girls on myspace about

bumblebee · Coach

this kind of behavior is a pretty classic sign of a codependent personality. it is absolutely rooted in insecurity, and it's directed outward at the person they are trying so hard to have a relationship with while not having a relationship, instead of inward (where it might get looked at and resolved).

blubirde · Chanel

Hermione wrote:

Holy crap you are describing that guy i've posted about on here to a TEE. that is completely ridiculous. i wish i could see what he's talking to all those naked girls on myspace about

Yes, yes, yes. I've dated that guy too. (And posted about him.) He sucks. We all hate him (the generic him, not the specific him). If it acts like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck right? Wrong. It's a wolf. Wearing feathers and... and a bill and shit.

It's totally not a duck! But it wants us to think it's a duck. And it gets mad at us if we start nosing around other ducks. And we're swans and, and... okay, I'm losing my duck analogy. Point: those guys suck. Period.

laken1 · Hermes

blubirde wrote:

Hermione wrote:
Holy crap you are describing that guy i've posted about on here to a TEE. that is completely ridiculous. i wish i could see what he's talking to all those naked girls on myspace about
Yes, yes, yes. I've dated that guy too. (And posted about him.) He sucks. We all hate him (the generic him, not the specific him). If it acts like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck right? Wrong. It's a wolf. Wearing feathers and... and a bill and shit. It's totally not a duck! But it wants us to think it's a duck. And it gets mad at us if we start nosing around other ducks. And we're swans and, and... okay, I'm losing my duck analogy. Point: those guys suck. Period.

That's my girl!

esquiress · Marc Jacobs

sigh. my friends and i call this kind of guy the commitment-phobe and we've been dealing with different versions of him since college. for what it's worth, here's my theory: the committment-phobe wants to have his cake and eat it too. he wants all the positives of a relationship, meaning hooking up, hanging out, acting cute, etc., without any of the negatives, meaning exclusivity or contemplating the girl he's going out with as the only girl he'll EVER be with. he also doesn't want to deal with any "needy" behavior, i.e. when the girl accuses him of "using" her or leading her on or sending mixed messages. there could be a million reasons on why he is the way he is--dizzy's theory regarding his own neediness, my theory on his unrealistic selfishness, or maybe he's sending mixed messages because his feelings are mixed up too. or maybe he's a frickin' sadist, who knows?

at the end of the day, where do all these theories leave the girl who got involved with this guy? the girl who got stood up or cheated on or "played," what is her recourse? maybe she just has to be really honest about what she wants, what he can give and what (if anything) she's willing to settle for. after all, he's putting himself first. maybe she owes it to herself to put herself first. as for why he is the way he is, let that be his problem.

-- Edited by esquiress at 16:57, 2006-02-13

blink · Coach

Dizzy wrote:

lorelei wrote: I think guys like that don't like girls who are not a challenge, which I think is a pretty natural thing. I happened to tell guys not to fall in love with me, and somehow, when I did that, the opposite would happen. Just so happens that I was aloof with my husband, I actually did like him a lot too, so when he decided to get serious about me after he realized I wasn't going to commit easily, I was all about it. This is not the guy I'm talking about - and everyone loves a challenge, but that's a different dynamic. I'm talking about the guy, who, in an extreme example, slept with a friend of mine for NINE MONTHS, all the while insisting, despite the fact that they were together almost every day and everyone assumed they were a couple, that they were not a couple. Y'all, my friend is not a needy, desperate person. She is gorgeous, could pose for playboy and has a super-high gpa. This guy freaked whenever she tried to hang out with another guy, flipped if she didn't call for a few days, and promised almost everything but a commitment (he just wasn't ready after having had his heart broken sometime about a year before they got together). THEN this guy sent a message on friendster to a girl who was also in my friend's account about hooking up. He also paraded the girl in front of mutual friends. And when confronted, guess what he said? You guessed it "I said I didn't want a commitment..." BUT HE ACTED LIKE HE DID. And he totally rubbed the cheating in her face. Just to drive her crazy. I think HE"S the one that needed the attention.

yeah, what a jerk. I had been burned by a guy like this before, which could be why I started playing serious rules with all men immediately afterwards. but I wouldn't put this guy in any kind of normal theory category, he's a freak occurance type to be seriously avoided in the future. borderline sociopathic personality, in my opinion.

scarlett · Marc Jacobs

esquiress wrote:

sigh. my friends and i call this kind of guy the commitment-phobe and we've been dealing with different versions of him since college. for what it's worth, here's my theory: the committment-phobe wants to have his cake and eat it too. he wants all the positives of a relationship, meaning hooking up, hanging out, acting cute, etc., without any of the negatives, meaning exclusivity or contemplating the girl he's going out with as the only girl he'll EVER be with. he also doesn't want to deal with any "needy" behavior, i.e. when the girl accuses him of "using" her or leading her on or sending mixed messages. there could be a million reasons on why he is the way he is--dizzy's theory regarding his own neediness, my theory on his unrealistic selfishness, or maybe he's sending mixed messages because his feelings are mixed up too. or maybe he's a frickin' sadist, who knows?
at the end of the day, where do all these theories leave the girl who got involved with this guy? the girl who got stood up or cheated on or "played," what is her recourse? maybe she just has to be really honest about what she wants, what he can give and what (if anything) she's willing to settle for. after all, he's putting himself first. maybe she owes it to herself to put herself first. as for why he is the way he is, let that be his problem.-- Edited by esquiress at 16:57, 2006-02-13

YES, Esquiress, you hit the nail on the head! Who can say for sure exactly why these guys act the way they do, but if someone wants all the benefits of a relationship without really being in one, then he should be avoided like the plague.

I agree, it's better for us to be honest about what we want. In my own experience, I used to think too much about what the guy wanted, what he was thinking, while I wasn't always up front with what I wanted because I was afraid of "scaring him off" or being too "needy." That never worked out. With my BF now, when we had been dating for a few weeks I told him what I was interested in, simply and in a non-dramatic way, and he was able to say whether or not he was interested in the same thing (i.e., I told him I wasn't interested in just messing around but wanted to be with someone I could care about). Turns out he felt the same way, but if he hadn't been, at least I would have known up front and been able to decide if it was time to move on.

ETA: about being a challenge: I interpret this as not being, for lack of a better term, a "doormat." I've never been a fan of not returning phone calls and that kind of game playing (not that anyone else here is saying they are, but you read those kinds of things in articles on dating). It's better to just be yourself, but also to put yourself first. If a guy only calls for plans at the last minute, for example, then don't cancel the plans you already had made just to hang out with him. Or for example if he wants to have sex without a committment, and you don't, then stop having sex with him. I hate men like that!

-- Edited by scarlett at 12:04, 2006-02-14