STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

Eurodaisy · Dooney & Bourke

RE: Marriage...

erin · Chanel

when i was younger i always thought i wanted to get married and have a big wedding.

then when marriage became a real possibilty, i wasn't sure i actually wanted to get married. we love each other and want to spend the rest of our lives together, but similar to what brazen canadian said, i felt shitty about the fact that i could be married but there were friends of mine who couldn't (and still can't).

in the very unromantic end of things, i was freelancing and needed health insurance. when we lived in dc, i was able to get domestic partnership health insurance, but moving back to pennsyltucky, i was not (because he changed jobs).

i agree with detroit, that it makes a lot of legal and financial sense to get married. i didn't change my name, and we both still have our own identities. i just wish these legal benefits were available to everyone.

ps j.o.p. wedding. i wore a purple prom dress. parolees waiting in the lobby congratulated us after our nuptials.

Hermes

erin wrote:

ps j.o.p. wedding. i wore a purple prom dress. parolees waiting in the lobby congratulated us after our nuptials.

love it! I wore my favorite dress at the time, which happened to be black

shopgirl82 · Chanel

detroit wrote:

Also, if anything ever happened to my SO, I would have legal rights as immediate family.-- Edited by detroit at 09:46, 2006-02-04

not to take the romanticism out of marriage, but this is a very important issue, especially in healthcare. the first question that a lot of hospitals ask in times of crisis, are you a spouse or relative? i don't want to get started on how often this happens that "partners" can't always be present during times of emergency because they don't fall into the spouse/relative category.

scarlett · Marc Jacobs

shopgirl82 wrote:

detroit wrote:
Also, if anything ever happened to my SO, I would have legal rights as immediate family.-- Edited by detroit at 09:46, 2006-02-04
not to take the romanticism out of marriage, but this is a very important issue, especially in healthcare. the first question that a lot of hospitals ask in times of crisis, are you a spouse or relative? i don't want to get started on how often this happens that "partners" can't always be present during times of emergency because they don't fall into the spouse/relative category.

I agree, this is a very important issue and one reason I am in favor of gay marriage having legal benefits. Remember Kevyn Aucoin, that amazing makeup artist? He had a column in Allure and came out with a few books. He was gay, and when he died his partner (who I think is named Jeremy) got completely screwed because he had no legal rights. There was an article about it in New York magazine, and Jeremy was talking about how Kevyn's mother just kicked him out of the home that he and Kevyn had shared. As the mother, she was the person with the legal rights to his property. People can do really terrible things to each other, especially when money and deep emotions are involved.

-- Edited by scarlett at 12:53, 2006-02-04

luckylily · Gucci

The main reason my husband and I got married was because it was the easiest way for us to live in the same country. I'm a U.S. citizen and he is Canadian. If that hadn't been a factor, we probably would have just moved in together. I have no doubt that we would have been committed for life, but I'm not sure how long we would have waited to marry. It wasn't particularly important to us.

That said, now that we are married I love it. I love being introduced as his wife. I know there are plenty of people in committed relationships, but there is something about the term "husband and wife" that makes people respect your relationship a bit more.

Also, when the whole Terri Shiavo thing happened, I was really happy to be married. I absolutely do not want my parents making decisions for me. My husband knows me way better than they do, and I'm really glad that he would legally be the one to make the decisions if something should happen to me.

I've got a to each his/her own atitude about weddings, but I personally hate big, traditional weddings. My husband and I put all our wedding money into a really great vacation and got married on the beach in Hawaii by some dude wearing flip flops and an obnoxious Hawaiian shirt. I wore a Betsey Johnson summer dress and DH wore shorts and a nice, but casual shirt. It was the best decision for us.

relrel · Marc Jacobs

BrazenCanadian wrote:

This may not be a popular opinion so I will keep it brief... I do not want to and will not marry. My bf (lifepartner, luhhh-ver, whatever) and I are already "married" in our eyes. I don't think it is necessary to pay the government a fee to prove my love for someone. That, to me, is a big load of BS. Also I don't think it is any business of the government to say whom can marry whom (ie: gay marriages). And as a silent protest, I will not legally marry.

this sums up how i feel too. i don't have any issues with anybody getting married...just spending the gobs of money at weddings. just as with anything else, people have different feelings and it's cool that marriage, which used to be a do or die situation, has become something like that. i also don't feel that marriage is for everyone, just like how i feeel that school isn't for everyone either. i have great plans for my career such as international work and i don't feel like it would be fair to get married to somebody knowing that i won't stay in one place or one country for long. and i don't want to have to worry about another person like that either.

just a question...brazencanadian...im gonna take a wild guess that you are canadian, right? what are the rules in canada on gay marriage, is it the same as the usa?

added to add...a thought on the extreme circumstances end of stuff: i am only 26 but have actually put together a living will. my parents, my four sisters, and my DP, are all very aware of my wishes both of coma and funeral wishes. i understand that for some people this is an issue, about legal rights of partners. however, i feel that my parents would respect my issues, both written and voiced, about what i would want at the end of my life. besides...my views on coma/funeral wishes are actually the exact same as both of my parents so i can't fathom that anything would happen to change that. again...if i didn't feel this way, and if in the future i didn't feel as secure as i did, i would completly change my opinion on marriage.

-- Edited by relrel at 15:31, 2006-02-04

Hermes

relrel wrote:

added to add...a thought on the extreme circumstances end of stuff: i am only 26 but have actually put together a living will. my parents, my four sisters, and my DP, are all very aware of my wishes both of coma and funeral wishes. i understand that for some people this is an issue, about legal rights of partners. however, i feel that my parents would respect my issues, both written and voiced, about what i would want at the end of my life. besides...my views on coma/funeral wishes are actually the exact same as both of my parents so i can't fathom that anything would happen to change that. again...if i didn't feel this way, and if in the future i didn't feel as secure as i did, i would completly change my opinion on marriage. -- Edited by relrel at 15:31, 2006-02-04

all those touting the benefits of marriage providing legal rights in extreme circumstances plan to spend the rest of our lives with our SO's. for those, like you, that do not want to commit to someone for the rest of their lives (as you said you want freedom to move around and wouldn't want to be with someone who would be willing to accommodate that), a living will is a good option.

I'm really starting to think that so many of the nay-sayers perception of marriage is that you have to give up your life - which is not true. I know someone who is married, works in Michigan, has a husband and house in Pennsylvania, and goes home once a month. If I wanted to take advantage of an opportunity for an out of state or international assignment, I would. Just because I'm married doesn't mean I have to change my name, identity, have children, give up opportunities and dreams, and not live life to its fullest. I am married because I found a person I was willing to commit to for the rest of my life - part of what made me believe I could commit to this person for the rest of my life is that I would be able to maintain my freedom to pursue things and maintain my identity.

Since I decided to commit, why would I choose not to make it legally binding? - I don't understand why that's a bad thing in a truly committed relationship...

I'm curious to hear your responses, relrel and brazen canadian.

-- Edited by detroit at 15:50, 2006-02-04

Hermes

relrel wrote:

if i didn't feel this way, and if in the future i didn't feel as secure as i did, i would completly change my opinion on marriage. -- Edited by relrel at 15:31, 2006-02-04

so you are saying those who choose marriage in a lifelong committed relationship are insecure?

Maddie · Coach

These are really interesting responses.

I feel like for me aside from the legal and societal benefits I just kind of have this innate desire to get married if I find the right person, for the reasond NCshopper described. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want a wedding, for various reasons. 1. I'd rather spend the money on a fabulous honeymoon. 2. I'm very private about relationship stuff and thus have no desire to express my love in front of others. 3. I feel like when it comes down to it all weddings are essentially the same and I'm nothing if not different. That said, I also completely understand why someone else would want a wedding, and I'd be happy to attend.

Third question to the mix...Did/would you change your last name?

I have no idea about this. My mom didn't change hers (my sister and I have our dad's last name and our mom's last name for our middle name) so I have always thought that I wouldn't. I don't really like hyphenated names.

-- Edited by Maddie at 14:47, 2006-02-05

sephorablue · Marc Jacobs

I want a lifelong partnership, which to me just means a marriage. I see where people are coming from who don't feel that it's necessary to prove commitment, but I see a lot of really good reasons to do it, and no good reasons not to. I think the point about not wanting to marry because only straight people can do it is interesting, but I can't help playing devil's advocate. What about voting? There are a hell of a lot of places in the world where women can't vote or have any legal rights.

relrel · Marc Jacobs

detroit wrote:

relrel wrote: if i didn't feel this way, and if in the future i didn't feel as secure as i did, i would completly change my opinion on marriage. -- Edited by relrel at 15:31, 2006-02-04 so you are saying those who choose marriage in a lifelong committed relationship are insecure?

secure with my parent's and i relationship. i feel secure that my parents would respect my wishes, this has nothing to do with my relationship with whomever i might be at the moment.

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detroit wrote: I'm really starting to think that so many of the nay-sayers perception of marriage is that you have to give up your life - which is not true. I know someone who is married, works in Michigan, has a husband and house in Pennsylvania, and goes home once a month. If I wanted to take advantage of an opportunity for an out of state or international assignment, I would. Just because I'm married doesn't mean I have to change my name, identity, have children, give up opportunities and dreams, and not live life to its fullest. I am married because I found a person I was willing to commit to for the rest of my life - part of what made me believe I could commit to this person for the rest of my life is that I would be able to maintain my freedom to pursue things and maintain my identity.

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i also don't feel that marriage equals changing your name, identity, having children, etc. what i do feel is that when you are married, you must learn to take the marriage into consideration with jobs and oppurtunities. i personally don't think i would feel right not living with my husband. that doesn't have anything to do with identity, just location. more power to your friend who can do that, but i don't think i could. that's all.

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detroit wrote: why would I choose not to make it legally binding? - I don't understand why that's a bad thing in a truly committed relationship...

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it's not a bad thing. perhaps i didn't make myself as clear as i wanted. i don't have any issues with other people marrying. i just don't feel its right for me. because of my personal issues with the church, the government, and with "institutions" i don't feel that i can get married. but again, i also don't buy apple products because i have issues with steve jobs, don't wear nike's because of sweat shop stuff, etc...to me, marriage is something else that i have made a decision to personally boycott. i don't care if other people listen to thier ipods while wearing thier nikes just the same as i don't care if people choose to marry. as i stated about my parents somewhere, they have been married for almost thirty years and are still in love. marriage is wonderful for some people, and not so hot for other people.

dammit. the more i read these posts and am really really really thinking about all this i wonder if maybe i would just change my mind on all of this if i did meet somebody who made me feel differently. perhaps it's just that my relationships (now and in the past) have always been open enough that it was a "whatever happens, whatever happens" kind of thing. the guy i am with now and i have a deep frienship, a love for eachother, but in all honesty, have different goals for our future goals and careers so i know i will not be with this one in the next five years. but who knows? perhaps all it takes is a good man?

Elle · Hermes

Maddie wrote:

Third question to the mix...Did/would you change your last name? I have no idea about this. My mom didn't change hers (my sister and I have our dad's last name and our mom's last name for our middle name) so I have always thought that I wouldn't. I don't really like hyphenated names

I am absolutely changing my name. The biggest reason is that his is much easier to pronounce and spell. And you know how people say "You can't choose your family"? By sharing a name I feel like we're both demonstrating that we've chosen each to be our family. We'd still be a family if I decided not to change my name (which I wouldn't have if his name had been harder to say/spell than mine!), but that's what it feels symbolic of to me.

And, for me personally I've never had an attachment to my surname. The one I was born with was not that of my mother or biological father but of my mothers first husband, from whom she had long been divorced. My current last name is that of my legally adoptive father, so while it has meaning to me in that sense I don't feel like I'm really denying part of my identity or my heritage or whathaveyou.

Honestly, it feels like the decision to have a wedding, aside from the decision to get married, is somewhat of a feminist issue. Not only here necessarily, but in general these days. Almost like people think a truly progressive woman wouldn't/shouldn't want a wedding, and that women who choose to are weak, focusing on the wrong things, frivolous, etc. I think it's interesting that spending alot of money on a wedding is considered an unnecessary expense, and is put into a separate category from other expenses that could be viewed in the same way by our own emotional response to what we think a 'wedding' is. And from someone who is having an expensive, big wedding I too think having a big, expensive wedding that is beyond one's means is totally ridiculous. But not every big, expensive wedding is totally ridiculous, ya know?

scarlett · Marc Jacobs

Elle, I agree with you that not every big, expensive wedding is ridiculous. Personally I think everyone should have the kind of wedding they really want, and if they can afford a big one, then more power to them, or if they choose to do a small ceremony on the beach, then more power to them as well. What's important is what makes the couple in question happy, and how they feel they should celebrate their union.

If we look at feminism in the way it was intended, at least in the way I interpret it, is that all women should have the choice to live the way they want to without censure. So if what someone wants is to be a stay at home mom, then she should be allowed to do that without being looked down on, and if she wants to be president of a bank, then she should be able to do that too. My mom stopped working after I was born and sometimes she's felt that people looked down on her, or assumed she was this bumpkin who didn't know what was going on in the world, just because she wasn't working.

When I get married I think I will take my husband's last name, out of a sign of love for him and also for whatever kids we end up having. I like my last name now and I'll miss it, but I wouldn't feel right about not sharing my husband's name. However, I don't think less of women who keep their maiden names.

zeitgeist4 · Gucci

I'm neither for marriage nor against it. To each his/her own. But I don't like the way people (especially celebrities) treat it lightly, divorcing multiple times. I don't understand the point of getting married "temporarily." You should commit to the relationship and try and work on it, not just bail at the first sign of trouble. I don't know if I could ever say, "Yes, I am willing to be with this person until the end." But then again, that person hasn't come along yet. And I'm not trying to insult people who are divorced, I understand that sometimes there are circumstances where divorce is, for lack of a better word, unavoidable (i.e. physical abuse).

The main reason why I would be for marriage is the legal rights. I could care less about the whole church/religion aspect since I'm atheist. If I do get married it would be at the courthouse, with a simple party afterward. I would rather put the wedding money toward something like new furniture or a car.

Changing or keeping my last name would depend on what his is. If it's bad/hard to spell I would keep mine. I don't want kids, so it wouldn't be tricky figuring out what their last name would be.

And since others have brought it up, I think it's idiotic to not allow gays to marry. At least for the "disrespect for the institution of marriage" reason. Ummm, hello, straight people divorce, is that respectful? I just don't think there's any reason to not allow gays to marry. I understand that some people think that being gay is a sin or whatever, but that shouldn't hold back two people who love each other from having the same rights as others.

wicked · Coach

I got married for legal reasons. We eloped, i never ever considered a wedding. I remember being like 5 years old and knowing that i wasn't into it. I didn't change my last name, but I still consider it sometimes.

Hedvig · Coach

I got married last August after living together with my now husband for nine years. We had very practical reasons for tying the knot when we did - it was getting a bit of a hassle for us to live together in the US as foreigners without being legal spouses.

I'm sure we would've gotten married eventually anyway but it never seemed terribly important to us to do so because we were already living together and had been for such a long time. I do agree that the legal rights marriage provides are a very good argument for favoring marriage over just living together.

I had always thought my wedding would be fairly traditional - in church, with my family and most, if not all, my relatives present. Instead, we had a city hall wedding in NYC. It was just the two of us and my husband's former colleague as a witness. We both just called home after the ceremony to tell our parents we were married.

I do enjoy throwing parties so a bigger wedding could've been fun - then again, my hubby loathes parties, and weddings in particular...

Who knows, we might still have a get-together of some kind for our families when we're in the same country as they are.

I am very happy with the way our wedding turned out, though. We even hired a photographer to take pictures of us in Central Park and I did have a white dress and a bouquet of roses I had ordered a couple of hours before the ceremony. I think it was a perfect New York wedding.

Oh, and I did change my name. Nothing wrong in being slightly traditional every once in a while...

-- Edited by Hedvig at 21:05, 2006-02-04

NCshopper · Hermes

Wow, this is a really interesting discussion. Marriage is such a personal decision and it's really interesting to hear various opinions about the issue. I know a lot of people have very strong feelings on this issue and I really hope that no one's taken/taking offense or feeling attacked. I sincerely doubt that anyone on this board would have an intention of doing so.

Anyway, with regards to the last name issue, it's something I've hemmed and hawed over for awhile. After two years of marriage, I still haven't changed my last name, but the more I think about it, the more I'd like to. It seems like a major pain in the ass though and it'll take some time to do it, but I think I'd like to do it someday. My current last name is easy to pronounce and easy to spell, much easier than my husband's, but my reason for wanting to change my last name is because I'd like to have kids in the future. This is just a personal preference issue for me, but I just like the idea of a family all having the same last name. I don't want my kids to have to explain that mommy and daddy have different last names or anything like that, and personally, I'm not a fan of a hypenated last name. Plus, I was born with no middle name, so my maiden name will just become my middle name.

Also, I think I've decided on using my maiden name as my career name, since it's easier to pronounce and spell, and it's the name I've started a reputation with, and my husband's last name for non-business stuff.

Side tangent, but I REALLY REALLY hate when I get letters addressed to Mr. and Mrs. John Smith. (My husband's name isn't John Smith, I'm just using that as an example.) Mr. and Mrs. Smith doesn't bother me, and neither does The Smith Family or Mr. and Mrs. John and Jane Smith, but I just REALLY hate when people address something to Mr. and Mrs. John Smith. I've noticed it's an older generation that does this, but I hate that somehow because I'm married, I'm just supposed to be Mrs. John instead of Mrs. Jane.

Metric · Gucci

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against marriage as an intitution. Everyone should feel free to marry if they so choose to. But it is simply my personal belief that i will not. I agree with RelRel in the sense that I do not practice a religion that I don't have faith in and won't buy from companies that don't have consciencious business practices. But that doesn't mean that (for example) religions are bad b/c I do not practice a certain one.

I guess I just don't see it as a necessity. I have never seen it as my "path", there are more routes on the road of life than A to B to C. I have a living will b/c I am not confident that any members of my family would carry out my wishes with my best interest at heart. And I have never been given a really good example of happy marriages (ie my parents had a horrible marriage and an even worse divorce) so in a sense, marriage for me has been "tainted".

RelRel- they have very recently approved gay marriages in Canada. But they keep going back and forth on the issue and its really confusing to what the actual rules are. My province (ie Redneck central) will not accept the approval and no homosexual couples have been married in AB yet.

Maddie's question was simply why or why not? I wasn't ripping into marriages (I never said marriage was a bad thing, I only said I will not do it) and yet I feel like my personal beliefs are getting run through. This has really upset me, I don't think it was fair to pick my response apart. I probably shouldn't have answered this poll.

luckylily · Gucci

Maddie wrote:

Third question to the mix...Did/would you change your last name?

I did not change my last name. My husband and I actually had an interest in having the same name, but we both have last names that make people giggle or ask dumb questions. We considered selecting a new surname, or somehow combining our surnames, but ultimately we couldn't decide on anything so we each kept our own names.

I did make my husband's surname my 2nd middle name and he did the same.

I wanted to add that I completely agree with detroit. Marriage doesn't need to limit your life in any way at all. I'm still as free spirited and spontaneous as I was before I met and married my husband. In fact, I believe that the fact that we each have maintained a strong personal identity makes are marriage stronger and more passionate.