STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

halleybird · Hermes

Most College Students Lack Skills

Elle · Hermes

Thanks for posting that H-Bird - very interesting. It's terribly scary that these kids are spending so much time/money/effort getting all book-smart, and then they also end up life-dumb. So many of my friends are still struggling with the life-dumb part. A couple who are nearing the end of college are going back just because they don't know what else to do with themselves .

And people wonder why their star students flounder when they get out of school !

honey · Gucci

some of those things i totally blame on parents. um hello, school is not going to teach you how to balance a checkbook. but then again i learned that in my elementary school math class. we had a whole section where you had to make a budget and stick to it. guess they don't teach that in anymore.

as far as critical analysis -- this is a huge pet peeve of mine and not just limited to college students. it always amazes me the number of people who believe something just b/c they saw it on the news. not that the news shouldn't be trusted, but if you have an opinion you should be able to back it up.

erin · Chanel

while i don't think it is the teacher's responsibility, i do think it would be a good idea to have a segment in high school that would be required for students on budgeting/etc. i know parents should ideally talk to their kids about this, but obviously they don't because there are TONS of people my age in serious cc debt. (and younger!)

Shello · Kenneth Cole

I'm a college student, and I completely agree with the article. First of all, I think a lot of the problem are the parents. I have no idea how to write a check or pay bills, because my parents take care of all of it for me. I've asked them to show me and they've repeatedly told me to focus on other things because I don't need to know yet. I think a lot of parents like mine just feel un-needed as their children move away from childhood and this way they'll keep tabs on me?

I definitely know how to analyze information however, and I'm fairly sure I could easily read charts or graphs and estimate whether I had enough gas or not, but I do know lots of people that couldn't.

Seriously, you hear some REALLY dumb things from college kids all the time. Last summer this girl I worked with who was an International Affairs major at Wellsley asked me where Baghdad was. I really thought she was kidding and I started laughing, and she asked me what was funny. One of my suitemates didn't know that milk went bad. Both of my suitemates will leave sausage pizza out for 3 days (unrefrigerated) and keep eating it until it's gone. It's really sick. I could go on and on with these stories, but simply, this is a major problem.

Andrea Julia · Coach

erin wrote:

while i don't think it is the teacher's responsibility, i do think it would be a good idea to have a segment in high school that would be required for students on budgeting/etc. i know parents should ideally talk to their kids about this, but obviously they don't because there are TONS of people my age in serious cc debt. (and younger!)

YES! At the very least, a class on personal money management should be on the list of electives so it is available to students if they want it. A lot of students' parents aren't really that great themselves at managing money and this passes on to their children. Or maybe the parents have a lot of money, but later in life, the student ends up in a situation where they are working with a much smaller budget. I mean, in high school elective courses, I made a clock in woodshop and a stuffed animal in sewing, two things I am 99.9% sure I will never again do or need to do in my lifetime. Surely, there should be a class that focuses on decisions that will be made pretty much daily in your life. The course should focus on budgeting, managing a checkbook, calculating interest on a loan, investments, credit cards, and calculating how much mortgage or car payment you can afford.

-- Edited by Andrea Julia at 19:09, 2006-01-21

-- Edited by Andrea Julia at 08:31, 2006-01-24

halleybird · Hermes

Andrea Julia wrote:

YES! At the very least, a class on personal mony management should be on the list of electives so it is available to students if they want it. A lot of students' parents aren't really that great themselves at managing money and this passes on to their children. Or maybe the parents have a lot of money, but later in life, the student ends up in a situation where they are working with a much smaller budget. I mean, in high school elective courses, I made a clock in woodshop and a stuffed animal in sewing, two things I am 99.9% sure I will never again do or need to do in my lifetime. Surely, there should be a class that focuses on decisions that will be made pretty much daily in your life. The course should focus on budgeting, managing a checkbook, calculating interest on a loan, investments, credit cards, and calculating how much mortgage or car payment you can afford. -- Edited by Andrea Julia at 19:09, 2006-01-21

You know what's funny? They do have classes like that in our district, and in many others. They're called "Life Management" or something like that. But they are actually special-education classes, to help students who are mildly disabled learn to live on their own after high school. The Powers That Be must have decided that the "regular" kids didn't need that. How wrong they were. It's a great idea for a class, though -- their classroom is actually set up like an apartment, with a kitchen, washer/dryer, office, etc. so they can learn to live by themselves.

Some of the parents of today's teenagers/young people really scare me. The majority of parents I deal with are more interested in being friends with their kids, not being parents. This includes taking care of their kids' every whim and need. That sounds like a total cliche, but it really is true. About 75% of the parents I deal with are like this. It must be generational, because that wasn't the norm when I was in high school, and it doesn't seem to be the norm among people I know who have toddlers.

blink · Coach

I didn't learn how to balance a checkbook from my mom, I learned it from my Recordkeeping class in my junior year in 1993 at a public high school. Do public schools still have these classes? I had also attended private school before, where I had to take a typing class and where Algebra, Geometry and Algebra II were required to graduate.

I think the blame is a combination of problems, it's more the culture than just "the parents" and while I think it is more the responsibility of the education system and government (for the greater good) the problem is probably more within the states than with the individual teachers.

But hey, I bet these kids can teach us how to game on the internet,

berryahou35 · Dooney & Bourke

Elle wrote:

Thanks for posting that H-Bird - very interesting. It's terribly scary that these kids are spending so much time/money/effort getting all book-smart, and then they also end up life-dumb. So many of my friends are still struggling with the life-dumb part. A couple who are nearing the end of college are going back just because they don't know what else to do with themselves . And people wonder why their star students flounder when they get out of school !

I've always been known as book smart, but life dumb, but this was with me dealing with situaitons. Gosh if this article is true, then I've got easy competition out there when I graduate from college!! Right... no, I think the problem's just going to get worse as the generations go on.

About a budgeting class, I don't know about others, but many of these type of classes involved things that were absolutely common sense (or so I thought) that it has always been regarded as a joke class. But I do remember in 4th we learned how to write checks in math.

NCshopper · Hermes

I think it's a combination of parents and the schools. I don't think I've ever been taught in school how to balance a checkbook or any of that kind of thing. I believe my parents taught me that. I think AJ definitely has a point--if the parents don't know how to do it or don't have any clue about personal finance, then with the absence of classes on the subject, that kid isn't going to have a clue either.

I went to a private university with an amazing amount of people that were book smart/life dumb. One of my friends was pre-med and made incredible grades, but every month she'd throw her credit card bill away because she didn't know you had to pay it. She thought it was free money. Seriously.

theotherjess · Chanel

halleybird wrote:

Some of the parents of today's teenagers/young people really scare me. The majority of parents I deal with are more interested in being friends with their kids, not being parents. This includes taking care of their kids' every whim and need. That sounds like a total cliche, but it really is true. About 75% of the parents I deal with are like this. It must be generational, because that wasn't the norm when I was in high school, and it doesn't seem to be the norm among people I know who have toddlers.

So true! So many teenagers/kids I know have this sense of entitlement, like they deserve everything. I think the whole everyone-gets-a-trophy thing has really messed up a lot of people.

My parents gave me a credit card and a debit card when I turned 16 so I could learn to manage my money while I was still at home. It amazes me that some of my friends have credit cards that their parents pay off. That kinda defeats the whole purpose, ya know? One of my friends doesn't know how to do the laundry and told me her mom drives 3 hours to do her sophomore daughter's laundry at college . How will these people live on their own??

NCshopper · Hermes

theotherjess wrote:

It amazes me that some of my friends have credit cards that their parents pay off. That kinda defeats the whole purpose, ya know? One of my friends doesn't know how to do the laundry and told me her mom drives 3 hours to do her sophomore daughter's laundry at college . How will these people live on their own??

How does a college sophomore not know how to do laundry??? Sometimes I'm amazed teens/young adults can wipe their own asses without someone else having to do it for them. Sheesh!

Elle · Hermes

My ex-roomate's girlfriend didn't know they had to pick up their mail at their apartments. Or that there was a lint trap that needed to be cleaned in the dryer (in which she dried clothes for 4 months before roomie found out and showed her). She also didn't understand why Martha Stewart didn't just pay someone so she could leave jail. She was 21, BTW .

I think a modernized money-management/budgeting class could be of great use to kids. I learned to balance a checkbook in my Personal Finance class sophomore year, but because we pay virtually all of our bills online and also have the ability to move/manage the money in our accounts online, I've never had to balance my checkbook! Times are changin' ...

Honestly, I think that parents do need to make more of an effort, but the kids need to take responsibility for themselves too, and IMO at 18 you should be capable of doing it. But why take responsibility for yourself when you can just sit back and be coddled? My parents don't know squat about money and didn't teach me squat about money - in fact I never had a savings or checking account until I was 17 and FH and I opened one together! But I also had enough common sense to know how things worked and made the effort to find out how to do things I wasn't familiar with.

But then again, there's no motivation to rise to the challenge when mommy and daddy are there to save the day every time. I agree w/theotherjess about the sense of entitlement - everyone thinks their lives should be filled with free rides these days!

-- Edited by Elle at 20:25, 2006-01-22

Bastet · Kate Spade

Like honey, I remember a budget lesson in elementary school. We were taught how to budget, how to balance a checkbook, and how to deposit and withdraw money from the bank. They made it fun for us. I think lessons like that are great for young kids. However, I think it's up to the parents to teach their teens to be life-smart. It's not a teacher's job to teach a teenager how to do his or her laundry, empty the dishwasher, or how a credit card works.

I knew a girl in when I was a freshman in college whose mother drove over an hour every Saturday to come get her laundry and clean her dorm room. Usually, she also brought several hundred dollars of new clothes too. She had no idea how to function as an adult. She refused to take out the trash and expected her roommate to do it every time. Her own mother would not take out the trash... her dad had to do it. And this was almost 10 years ago. I think the problem lies with the parents. I don't know why parents today are so reluctant to encourage independence. Yes, older kids and teenagers won't like the fact that they have to do chores, but they'll get over it. Parents should want their children to be prepared to live in the real world. Catering to an older kid's every whim will only make it hard for them once they are on their own.

Even if the powers that be decide that life 101 should be required in highschools, I wouldn't be surprised if parents protested the idea that their precious children would have to learn how to do chores.

I was one of those kids whose mom did the laundry all the way through highschool. I was *not allowed* to do laundry; I actually asked to do it. So, when I got to college, I had no idea how to do laundry, even though my mom wrote some instructions on an index card. Reading instructions on a card and actually doing something are different. It was very embarassing. Thankfully, I had a friend in the dorm who taught me how to do laundry one night when no one else was around.

nunzi182 · Kate Spade

As a college graduate myself, I can tell you that in some respects I fit into that category in the article. It's so easy to coast in college and while I knew I was doing myself a great disservice, I coasted whenever I was given the opportunity. Things I got away with in college:

-Writing a few papers my freshman year that I was able to reuse at least once each year (I didn't write too many papers that I didn't "have" to.)

-Faking an internship. Yes ladies, I faked my internship. It was that easy to get away with stuff. Could I have done a real one, of course, but I found a way to fake it without getting caught. I had to write a daily journal for the course of the internship and a paper on what I learned, and I got an A. How's that for college guidance?

I'm not proud of these things, and if you read my post in Careers and Education, I'm definitely worse off because of it. That's not to say I didn't learn anything in college, I learned a great deal in my field, but I was never taught how to apply it to the real world.

jj · Kate Spade

My friends and I have a list of classes that should be taught in either high school or college. Not because we think they should be part of the curriculum, but because parents never teach their kids this stuff:

- what is a credit card and how does it work, including a special session on credit reports and why they are important

- how to file your taxes

- how to buy a house

Thank god my parents actually made me learn and DO these things!!

halleybird · Hermes

I discussed this article with my classes today. They didn't seem that surprised (although they all swear it doesn't represent them). Their comments had a recurring theme, though: elementary school seems to be much more focused on "real life" than high school. Many of them did checkbook/bill paying lessons in 4th or 5th grade, but haven't done them since. They said they wonder why the "life experience" stuff doesn't happen more in high school, where it's more useful.

At least in our state, there's a clear reason for this. All English and Math teachers are encouraged to "teach to the test" (the test being the exit exam required for all HS graduates starting this year). The test, of course, has nothing practical in it. So many teachers who were doing stuff like this can no longer do it.

luckylily · Gucci

I have a kind of differing opinion on this stuff. I think this just touches on a much bigger problem, which is that kids don't learn basic decision making and problem solving skills. A lot of us were never taught to fill out a form, do laundry, cook, or handle a credit card. However, we have basic problem solving skills and we are resourceful enough to figure these things out.

IMO, some teenagers are so babied even through their college years. They are coddled and their parents make so many decisions for them they never learn problem solving and decision making. As Bastet said, some kids are catered to and they never learn independence until they absolutely have to.

My DH works at a University, and I'm constantly shocked by how the kids behave and their expectations. In many cases parents fill out their applications, select their classes, pick their dorms, and then even chose their majors. One of my DH's responsiblities is handling new student registration and he often has to call kids at home before they arrive at the University. More often than not, the kids will completely defer to their parents. IMO, an 18 year old should be comfortable making the basic decisions required.

I'm sure it is an extremely tough balancing act for parents.

As a side note, I think debt has a lot more to our "i want what i want and i want it now" society than the fact that kids can't balance a check book. That is a whole different topic tho.

Bastet · Kate Spade

luckylily wrote:

They are coddled and their parents make so many decisions for them they never learn problem solving and decision making. As Bastet said, some kids are catered to and they never learn independence until they absolutely have to.

More often than not, the kids will completely defer to their parents. IMO, an 18 year old should be comfortable making the basic decisions required.

This is so true! When I was a soph in college, we had to declare our major, and the majority of girls (but not many guys) in my dorm called their parents to check what they should major in, or to ask if their choice was okay. A few girls I knew actually changed their majors their jr year because their parents told them to change it!

One thing I noticed in college and even in law school was that the majority of the students who lacked 'real life' skills were women. Yes, the men held off on doing their laundry until their dirty underwear achieved consciousness and ran into the washer itself, but they *knew* how to do it. Men knew how to pump gas, put oil in their cars, balance the checkbook, pay a cc off, etc. It was the women who couldn't do these things. Men didn't ask parents' advice about classes, majors, etc., either. And when it came time to apply for jobs during law school, a lot of the women (myself included) were extremely pressured by their parents to apply for jobs near them, while the men were applying anywhere in the country where they thought they could get a job.

One of the things I appreciated the most before I went to law school is that my dad taught me how to change a tire, check the fluids and put more in, how to use jumper cables, and some other car stuff (I didn't have a car before law school). I had to do all of these things (except the tire) in school at some point or another, and I was so happy I could do it! My mother's reaction to dad's car education was that I should just call him at home and have him drive down to fix the car!! (They lived over 2 hrs away).

I wonder if this is just something unique to where I went to school (southern VA) or if parents are less willing to encourage independence in women.

-- Edited by Bastet at 08:52, 2006-01-24

joy0302 · Kate Spade

Halleybird, I completely agree with you. It should not be up to the teachers to teach common sense things that these children should be getting from home. My mom has worked for a public school for 20 years and as you stated, the teachers are having to teach more to the standardized state testing than anything else. Unfortunately, teachers do not have time to teach everything and some things you just have to learn as you live.

I was shocked recently when two of my married friends, both of whom have bachelor degrees,went to buy a house. They called me and were very confused because they didn't know that you needed money for a down payment and for closing costs. I could not believe that two college educated people would not know that you needed money to buy a house!!!!!!! I guess that article helps explain it all!