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halleybird · Hermes

A Million Little Pieces

blubirde · Chanel

I read about this today, too. I don't understand the reasoning behind all of this. Why not just make it a fiction novel based on his life? It wouldn't lose any of its powerfulness - the core story is still the same. Why lie? And it's not like no one's going to know. He talks about real people in it. Wouldn't they know if it happened or not? Weird. I think it's sad.

rosey · Dooney & Bourke

Oh- I hope it's not Annie Dillard! She's one of my favorites and I never heard that- that would be a total bummer.

I was just thinking of reading A Million Pieces- that's really sad. I also totally trust tsg, tho.

rosey · Dooney & Bourke

blubirde wrote:

I read about this today, too. I don't understand the reasoning behind all of this. Why not just make it a fiction novel based on his life? It wouldn't lose any of its powerfulness - the core story is still the same. Why lie? And it's not like no one's going to know. He talks about real people in it. Wouldn't they know if it happened or not? Weird. I think it's sad.

I was thinking the same thing! But I wonder if he would get less press, etc. if it were fiction. I guess people wouldn't be as interested in hearing from him if it were seen as a fiction novel. Although, I don't know how he wouldn't realize that he would eventually get caught for this sort of thing.

ejc423 · Coach

blubirde wrote:

I read about this today, too. I don't understand the reasoning behind all of this. Why not just make it a fiction novel based on his life? It wouldn't lose any of its powerfulness - the core story is still the same. Why lie? And it's not like no one's going to know. He talks about real people in it. Wouldn't they know if it happened or not? Weird. I think it's sad.

According to the article, there was an attempt to publish another version of the book as fiction. But it was rejected and Frey allegedly removed fictional parts of the book.

I have heard people describe the writing as melodramatic and cliched, but because it was supposedly a true story, I thought it worked--as if it were a type of journal. I think if I had been told it was fiction, I would have found the story fascinating but that's all. Without being able to believe that these events actually happened to a real person (who lived through them), and without a groundbreaking voice in writing, Frey/the book (assuming that it could have gotten published) would surely not have recieved the scale of success he/it has. So I suppose that is the argument against publishing the novel as fiction. . .

halleybird · Hermes

The author that I am thinking of (still can't think of the name! I am hoping some bibliophile here will) was busted for something similar, like embellishing a real event in an essay that was supposed to be purely nonfictional. I googled Annie Dillard, and can't find anything about it, so it must not have been her.

I took a creative nonfiction class in college where we studied stuff like this. Writers like Tim O'Brien have published "true" accounts where facts were changed. If you've read "How To Tell a True War Story" (it is here if you haven't) he says "Absolute occurrence is irrelevant. A thing may happen and be a total lie; another thing may not happen and be truer than the truth." He also says of writing, "All you can do is tell it one more time, patiently, adding and subtracting, making up a few things to get at the real truth..."

Anyway, long story short -- what he was doing isn't much different than what a lot of creative nonfiction writers do...so why not own up to it? Is it because it was so important to sell the author's image? I haven't read the book yet, but I do know that even when facts are changed in creative nonfic, the point is not to deceive. So calling someone Steve when his name is John is not a big deal, but it is a big deal if you say Steve changed your life and he doesn't exist.

For those of you who read the book -- are the altered facts different enough to be deceptive?

-- Edited by halleybird at 20:46, 2006-01-10

Dizzy · Marc Jacobs

Was the author you were thinking of Rick Bragg, from the NYT? He wrote "All Over but the Shouting" and I was really moved - for years it was one of my favorite books. Then, I think about three years ago, he was busted for pretending to write a first person account of a fishing trip that he sent an intern on, then rewrote from her notes....

rosey · Dooney & Bourke

Dizzy wrote:

Was the author you were thinking of Rick Bragg, from the NYT? He wrote "All Over but the Shouting" and I was really moved - for years it was one of my favorite books. Then, I think about three years ago, he was busted for pretending to write a first person account of a fishing trip that he sent an intern on, then rewrote from her notes....

Dizzy, I loved "All Over But The Shouting" too! Rick Bragg is supremely talented writer- I was really saddened when that all went down at The Times. I know he's fudged some reporting stuff on stories (using an intern, etc. to report), which kinda sucks, but, unfortunately, interns often have to do a lot of work and don't get credit at major news agencies. He's certainly not alone in what he did. The good thing is I don't remember him fabricating anything and I don't think there's been a question about the truthfulness of his books, so we can still enjoy them.

Did you read "Ava's Man" too?

ejc423 · Coach

halleybird wrote:

I haven't read the book yet, but I do know that even when facts are changed in creative nonfic, the point is not to deceive. So calling someone Steve when his name is John is not a big deal, but it is a big deal if you say Steve changed your life and he doesn't exist. For those of you who read the book -- are the altered facts different enough to be deceptive?-- Edited by halleybird at 20:46, 2006-01-10

Well, I don't think the specific reports TSG found are necessarily "dealbreaking". But if the disconnect between what TSG found and the way Frey recounts the events is indicative of similar embellishment throughout the book, I would feel deceived. I guess what I'm saying is I'm willing to forgive (even appreciate--for reasons HB quoted) some creative altering of events, but if the whole story is more similar to the stuff uncovered by TSG than to A Million Little Pieces, then it would seem to me that "Steve" doesn't exist.

Maddie · Coach

halleybird...I thought of Tim O'Brien too. I remember the way I remember him describing it was that even though the events may not be entirely accurate, you are getting a truer story because it's portraying the real emotions more compellingly. For me this didn't cause his work to lose any effect (in fact The Things They Carried is one of my favorite books), just made me wonder about what actually happened. I think if Frey had put in a similar preface, the book would've affected me just as much, but I don't like being deceived. Particularly because now I know what specific parts are true and what aren't. A part of the book that really affected me was when he writes about his friend from middle school who died and how he still talks to her. To find out that isn't true is really disappointing.

Pepper · Kenneth Cole

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10807257/

Here's another article on the subject matter. You can now get a refund on the book if you want to.

I'm smack dab in the middle of this book too. I have been really enjoy it.

-- Edited by Pepper at 07:45, 2006-01-12

halleybird · Hermes

Dizzy - I don't think it was Rick Bragg. We talked about it in my class, which was during the 99-00 school year,and I felt like it was something that had been over for a couple of years. Also, I think Bragg plagiarized, and the example I am thinking of wasn't plagiarized, it was "embellished" real-life. Oh, well. Maybe I should email my prof.

I find this case fascinating for some reason. Again, I haven't read the book yet, but isn't it part of his character to be a deceitful jerkface? So the embellished details that made him seem like a jerk aren't true, but in truth he is a jerk anyway because he made them up. ? This makes my head hurt.

Anyway, sad as it is, I am actually more interested in reading this book now.

Maddie · Coach

I just thought this was so hilarious. And the guy wrote it all the way back in April 2003.

halleybird · Hermes

Maddie wrote:

I just thought this was so hilarious. And the guy wrote it all the way back in April 2003.

O.M.G. Maddie, that was the funniest thing I have read in a long time. LOL@ "Jonathan Safran Fuckface."

Maddie · Coach

My favorite part is this (warning EXPLICIT)...
"I open the cockpit door and I walk out. The Pilot wipes his nose because he's been snorting coke off my Balls. The flight attendant asks me if everything is OK and I fuck her. Outside, it is Night. The wing is straddled by blinking lights. From where I sit I can smell the lights and I want to break them with my fists. So I bust through the emergency exit door and leap onto the wing. Thank god we're still on the ground. I punch out the lights with my forehead and tear at the steel with my claws. I wish my parents had never made me go to College."

Did anyone else see him on Larry King? He totally won me over. It kinda sounds to me like he got pushed into publishing it as a memoir because he originally shopped it as fiction. If someone told me they loved the novel I'd written based on my life but wanted to publish it as a memoir, my answer would be, "Hell Yes." That's dream come true. Also, I understand why he would need to rearrange or embellish events in order to make it work as a book. There need to be build ups and climaxes in order for it to really work and life is often not like that. The point might come across better through fiction than it would through non-fiction. Plus how exciting was it when Oprah called?

halleybird · Hermes

Maddie, my favorite part is:

"I want your ass, Frey. Served to me piping hot on a platter. Then I will bite it. And then I will send it back. Not because it's tough. But because it's not tough enough.

See You In Hell, Bitch. "

The fact that Oprah defended him probably saved his career, IMO. She's the reason for his popularity, and if she'd been all "Shame on you" he'd have lots more 'splainin' to do.

Dizzy · Marc Jacobs

That is the funniest thing ever Maddie!