STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

alb · Marc Jacobs

Depressed, stressed out and just generally need to vent! (long) - UPDATE

KaffeeKlatsch · Marc Jacobs

RE: Depressed, stressed out and just generally need to vent! (long)

Hermes

What KK said -- that's totally what I was picking up. Like they're setting her up so they can deny her.

It seems as though she's trying to create a file that will substantiate the refusal of your daughter. Is there any way you can have your neurologist prepare documentation to include in the school's file to repudiate their incorrect observations?

As upsetting as it may be to switch her class, wouldn't the alternative of having the school deny her be far more upsetting? What are your options then -- a private in-home tutor?

greendiamond · Marc Jacobs

I wonder if you can present her assessment to your doctor and ask him to provide an assessment. That way when you go to the principle you can present your doctors findings.

Boots · Gucci

Both of my parents are retired teachers and they were two of the good ones. Unfortunately, they will be the first to agree that there are lazy teachers out there who care less about the children they are teaching and more about just making their own life easier. People like your daughter's teacher would make my mom livid when she was still teaching.

It sounds like this teacher made up her mind the minute she learned that your daughter may need extra attention to thrive in her classroom. I don't see how you can change this woman's mind since she obviously doesn't have the skills or desire to go the extra mile for your daughter.

My god daughter had to be tested for motor skills development when she was four. She had undeveloped motor skills that her preschool teachers were concerned about, but that my best friends and her husband couldn't detect at all. They eventually got her some physical therapy for about a year. She's now almost 13 and is the star pitcher of her softball team and has a 170 average on her junior bowling league. I'm not saying that your daughter needs physical therapy but maybe when you are in the States you should consider getting her tested by a doctor for development before you rely on this teacher's opinion. Maybe she's right and a few simple exercises would help your daughter develop easier. Maybe she's off the wall and your daughter is developing just fine but at her own pace. But a doctor or therapist is the opinion I'd trust.

Basically, what I'm saying is that you should take these standardized checklist with a grain of salt since they were done by a woman who I'm pretty sure shouldn't be teaching. Your child will develop at her own pace. And if she needs extra help, you strike me as a mom who will make sure she gets it.

As for the social aspect that the teachers seem to be negative about, you mentioned that she is already active in various social situations. Maybe your daughter is shy or takes a while to warm up to people at first. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with her. As long as you know that she has some friends and continues to maintain relationships with other people, I'm thinking that she will be just fine socially.

Miss Mabel · Kenneth Cole

That sucks, and I'm sorry you're going through it. I don't have anything else to offer except to say that you are right to pursue all avenues; you're your daughter's number one advocate, and her success in school does depend to some extent on you and her dad making sure she gets what she needs.

At the same time, I would encourage you not to be too antagonistic with her teacher(s), as you don't see exactly what they see any more than they see exactly what you see. My advice would be to try to give them the benefit of the doubt, but continue to be assertive about what you do see and how your daughter's behavior outside the classroom shows a different side. If they continue to be unhelpful, it might be time to look for another school.

I hope this doesn't sound as though I'm attacking or criticizing you -- I'm definitely not! It sounds as though you are doing a great job of supporting your daughter, and your daughter is lucky to have such a strong advocate. I just wanted to offer that other perspective in case it is helpful, but take it all with a grain of salt of course. smile

Good luck!

Yana · Dooney & Bourke

I"m so sorry to hear about your situation & frustration. YOu're right to be frustrated! How is your little girl doing? What is she aware of? Does she sense her teacher's attitute?
I realize that the school is unique & since you're abroad you have so "many" choices...however, is there any opportunity to switch teachers? Transfer to a different class/group? I'd think of a good tutor - it is an expense but a child can only benefit from it. If the tutor also finds a way to the child's heart, she'll be more responsive & motivated to learn, since in the class I suspect her motivation is decreased by the teacher.
Her gait & coordination are in little connectio to her reading skills:) You should speak school's priciple. I personally don't believe that the teacher all of a sudden will change her attitude once presented with assesment from the doctor, if not worsen her already pre set in mind attitude. Can you ask the principle if the transfer can be done?
Best of luck!

ayo · Coach

I am so sorry alb (sigh) . I have a similar but slightly different issue. I can share with you how I dealt with it.
My daughter is a Dec baby which means she misses the Sept cut off.
I have been prepping her for a while because I had every intention of making her test for the next grade level. In any case, when we started this private school, I was able to eventually convince them to test her and she did very well.
Now, I love my child but I am the first to admit that she is a bit 'busy'. She is very spirited, often restless, assertive and extremely talkative. So she can be disruptive in the class. Now she would be like this whether she is in this grade level or not.
Initially, when Jola would have problems at school, the teacher would say maybe it is because of her age and that she might recommend she repeat the grade if some of the behavior continues. Mind you the behavior they were complaining about most time was that she was talking too much during class time and was not standing perfectly in line. Also, they are teaching them cursive in her class, she initially was really struggling with it because it does require some fine motor skills that she is still developing. Again, her teacher would tell me that maybe her age had something to do with it. Despite the fact that I know that other students in class were also equally struggling. For goodness sake these are 4 year old!?! and my daughter is 3 going on 4. I just thought their expectations were a bit much. Also it appeared to be the 'cop out' for why she was not able to efficiently do her job.

So, during one of our parent teacher conferences, my husband and I told them point blank, that we do not intend for our daughter to repeat this grade and that we are willing to do whatever needs to be done in order to move past this point. I made her teacher send me emails of the lesson plans for the upcoming weeks. I would request a progress report from her every week. I know it was a bit more work for both the teacher and us but I wanted her to know how serious I was about making sure Jola was successful in school.
With Lucy, I would suggest you do escalate this to the principal and make sure when you are having the meeting that the teacher is also present and if possible some sort of documentation from her doctor explaining the condition. If that doesn't work, you do need to take it to the next level.
What she noted in the assessment really really bothers me personally. I would make her quantify her statements because right now it sounds like she is just making blanket statements without any facts/ On the flip side of this, it could also be that in her mind she truly doesn't understand Lucy's condition and she thinks she is "helping" her. In any case, I hope this was coherent (I am typing and simultaneously dealing with both kids) and good luck!

XtinaStyles · Marc Jacobs

How awful, alb! My brother is epileptic and has ADD (although no one ever diagnosed that back in the day). I've held plenty of books under his tongue and the bastard broke my tricycle during one of his seizures. Other than that though, he is as smart, coordinated, well-spoken, etc as anyone else.

1) I agree with KaffeeKlatsch - this is an act of extreme ignorance and discrimination, if not, a systematic attempt to keep grades up and get your daughter out. There is no way that a well-meaning honest teacher would answer that list as "NEVER" even if your daughter was rocking herself in a catatonic state all day.

2) You may want to check in on her to see how she is getting along socially when you are not around. Can you roll up to the schoolyard and observe her at some point in the day (sounds creepy, I know).

3) I think it is a good idea to have her motor skills, gait, etc examined by a doctor with a written report that you will bring to the teacher and principal.

The principal may not be very helpful because if this is "systematic" he or she could support the teacher. I wouldn't be so hesitant to change schools bc I don't think your daughter will get the nurturing and support that is AS IMPORTANT as education at such a young age.

alb · Marc Jacobs

Hi girls - Thanks for the input, concern and advice.

KaffeeKlatch - I had forgotten that you had a child with special needs. Thank you for your perspective. I agree that it looks like the main teacher is trying to wash her hands of my daughter. They are not pushing her to be sent out of district though b/c we are overseas and this is a private school. I have asked for a mtg with the teachers and my husband. My husband did not want to get the principal involved at this point - he wanted them to first explain themselves and then maybe go. I have a feeling that they may ask him to sit in though, which will be good.

D - it does look like they are setting her up for something, doesn't it? what exactly do you mean by denying her? are you talking about having her fail kindergarten so she cannot enter first grade? that could very well be what it happening. unfortunately, our neuro is a complete ass. we've already asked him to help with the school and he has refused (a huge part of the reason why we are going bact to the states for a second opinion). he is the only pediatric neuro that speaks english (and is bd certified in the us, hard to find here), so we have no choice but to go to him. I can't switch her class - she would be devastated as she is very attacehd to the asst. teacher and despite what the teather maintains i believe she would miss her peers/classmates. there is little options for schools other than this one. happily we only have until the end of the school year and then we are moving back to the us.

Green diamond - as i mentioned to D the doc is a complete ass and won't offer any extra help. he does the minimum - he sees her every 6 mos and does an eeg. my hubby doesn't want to involve the principal at this point (despite what i think), he thinks we should go to the teachers first and let them explain. so we've asked for a mtg, which hopefully will get scheduled soon.

alb · Marc Jacobs

Boots - you confirmed exactly what I was thinking. I too think taht she already made up her mind about lucy the minute she heard the word "epilepsy." and she clearly is using that as an excuse to not even try other learning approaches. i am trying to come up with a diplomatic way to say that at the mtg. but it breaks me heart. thank you for sharing your story about your goddaughter. that story is amazing and encouraging. lucy will be tested extensively at johns hopkins when we go there in january. she is going to get a full neuropsych evaluation. i am not providing much credence into what she is saying, esp. with respect tot he gross motor skills stuff, but it obviously worries me. but, i question whether she is even qualified to make such a determination. funny that her doctors have never mentioned it during her well-visit checkups. as far as the social stuff - she is in a class with only 8 other children. the ony other girls are two turkish girls who are friends (english is their 2nd language) and an italian girl who speaks NO english. how they can have a kid in that class that does not speak any english is beyond me, but apparently that is the norm in international schools. lots of wealthy turks send their kids to schools like this so that they can learn english and become bilingual. so anyway, she doesn't really click with these girls, so on the playground she plays with the younger kids that she knows from the bus and the neighborhood. they've made a big deal out of the fact that she "only plays with the younger kids."

Miss Mabel - thanks for the reminder. you're totally right. we are trying to not appear defensive but it's very hard. i do value the teacher's opinion to some extent, which is why i am so upset/worried. i keep asking myself "what if she's right?" Could my child have apergers or autism and we didn't even know about it? we will find out in january, which cannot come soon enough. I just want to get answers.

alb · Marc Jacobs

Yana - before this week she was happy as a clam. she generally has a happy disposition. this week she has been especially weepy. i'm not sure if she senses my stress or what, but i'm concerned. she likes both teachers. unfort. there are very few adequate english-speaking schools here. we can't switch classes b/c there is only one other class and to switch would upset her very much ironically b/c she likes her teachers so much. to make matters more complicated, the other teacher is the principal's wife. a tutor at this stage might be a good idea. she currently has the school's learning specialist two times a week, but she is part of the problem (one of the lady's that filled out the review).

Ayo - thanks for sharing your story with Jola. the issues are in fact similar - in your case the teacher seemed to use her age as an excuse and in my case it's the epilepsy or the side effects of the medication (which supposeldy has no side effects). i am so bothered about this too - you are so rt that she is making blanket statements without facts. the other thing that bothers me is the fact that she can make such serious observations yet we are just not hearing about it 3 mos. later.

X-tina - you're right, this definitely feels like discrimination and I am considering saying that. agree about what you said about a well meaning teacher not saying those things. and believe me the girl is nowhere near a catatonic state and does not rock (unless she has to pee). sadly i'm sure the principal will support the teacher. he's new and i suspect doesn't want to make waves. there is no other school available here - so the other option is to home school, which i'll do if i have to!

greendiamond · Marc Jacobs

This sure is a lot to deal with, alb. I guess the good news is that you will be stateside soon getting all the necessary assessments from Johns Hopkins. And, that you will be moving back here shortly. So, whatever you learn from the assessment, you'll have a change coming soon and will have a greater variety of teachers/schools and doctors who can help her with whatever she may or may not need help with. It seems like the limitations/lack of choices you are experiencing in Turkey are the biggest problem (and not your daughter like the tearcher would lead you to believe)...

Keep us posted on the meeting with the teacher as well as the results from her assessment in January.

alb · Marc Jacobs

Thanks, Green Diamond. It is tough living overseas with issues like this and I am very grateful for the opportunity to go to the States to get her evaluated. I realize that even in the States these things are still stressful and there are other issues to deal with that we don't have here (like having to wait months for an appt with a specialist, for example).

The meeting with the teachers will take place tomorrow afternoon. I will be happy to rerpot back. They re-wrote their letter, per our resuest, and toned down their assessment quite a bit. They are now saying that she has a "labored gait," among other things. Does anyone know what that is (other than what it sounds like)? I googled it and can't find much information - I'm getting the impression though that the term is used to describe how elderly people walk.

Anyway, thanks again for your advice and support.

Hermes

It sounds like you're set with Johns Hopkins, but if you need any research info, etc., I work for one of the top children's hospitals in the country. It is also a teaching hospital, so they have made many advances in pediatric health care, including epilepsy. http://www.childrensdmc.org/?id=656&sid=1

Just let me know if I can be of any help.

alb · Marc Jacobs

Thanks, D. I didn't realize that you worked for a children's hospital. The State Dept. first suggested DC - then they came up with either Johns Hopkins in Baltimore or the children's hospital in Boston. Turns out that they have been able to secure appts. for the time period we want at Hopkins, and that's how it was decided. If they don't take our insurance, then we may consider other venues. Thanks again for your offer of help!

Hermes

Johns Hopkins is an excellent hospital - not trying to get you to switch. I oversee CHM's online marketing, so if you need any info on specific conditions, please don't hesitate to tap me on the shoulder.

alb · Marc Jacobs

Awesome, thanks again. Apparently she will also be seen at Kennedy Keegler, which I assume is the children's part of Hopkins. I need to do more reseach when I get a chance. I noticed that they have a neurpsychology dept., which I hear is what she needs right now.

Yana · Dooney & Bourke

Indeed, best of luck with the tests, get them done ASAP & after that you'll have all the facts to build your case & see what's best for your little girl! I hope next year will be easier on you & your girl will be in a good & warm environment! Let us know how the tests go!

Elle · Hermes

I'm so sorry alb

. I agree with a few of the sentiments that have been expressed here already - they have already made up their minds about your kiddo, for one. I would probably attribute this more to cultural differences than anything else. Every culture/country has a set of norms and standards regarding how children develop, and they are rarely transferable to children of other cultures. I would have hoped the teachers at an international school would have been aware of that, but weirder things have happened!

Another thing is that I don't believe this teacher is necessarily qualified to be making the kind of physical assessments that she is. There is a lot of variation within normal developmental standards across all areas (physical, motor, speech, etc) and that's why there is very specific medical training required to tease out any issues. If you're going to be back in the states for a neuro consult, I might see about scheduling some developmental testing as well, just to get a culturally correct assesment in and see if there really are issues that need to be addressed.