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Post Info TOPIC: "Owner" wants "her" dog back...
shopgirl82


Chanel

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"Owner" wants "her" dog back...
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I haven't posted in sooooo long(I'm not sure if anyone remembers me).  I miss this forum so much.  I have been super busy and a lot of things have happened with me.  I hope to be able to post more.  I figured there's a lot of intelligent dog owners and for that matter, intelligent ladies that could help me. 

I'll try to make a long story short.

My friends M and L both got King Charles Cavaliers and they are also roommates. L is a great owner and M is not. M leaves at 6am doesn't take the dog outside before work and often goes out after work without coming home to take the dog out. L works at 3 so often takes care of both dogs, but favors her dog because she signed up for one dog not two and has told me this.

M's dog is neglected (M runs out of dog food so gives it baby carrots, crates it for up to 12 hours a day sometimes, and left the dog unattended for almost 3 days at Xmas because the cost to take the dog home on a flight was too expensive and she didn't find this out till hours before her flight so didn't make arrangements).

She knows I love the dog (9 mnths old) so she asks me to watch it once in a while and I offer to as well. She has left me with the dog for a couple trips (I "saved" the dog on Xmas otherwise it would've been alone for a WEEK). Often, we set a time to pick up the dog but then doesn't call to pick up the dog till SEVERAL days after the original date. I feel this two owner thing is not fair to the dog and confuses her. Origninally, I thought the dog would be sad leaving her sister, but that doesn't seem to be the case based on behavior when they see each other.

So recently, she left the dog with me, and we arranged for her to pick up the dog on Thurs, at latest Friday since I was going out of town. She never picked up the dog, so I took the dog with me since I didn't want to leave the dog alone. It was a inconvenience for me. I have also spent several hundred dollars on the dog since she never has food, etc...

So last night at almost midnight, I got a text from her roommate, L, saying that M wants the dog back asap.

I feel that she abandoned the dog by not picking it up over a week ago, and by not picking it up before my trip when I called her.

I want the dog and am willing to offer a lot of money to keep it since I don't think she's a good owner and I want the dog to be happy (I have already looked into dog walkers for the 3 days a week I would need it). The dog is in the crate ALL the time and I feel like M (not very decisive), thought a dog would be fun because L wanted one, but doesn't want the responsibility. I know that M could desperately use the money. Also, M's roommates both think that I am a much better owner and sees the dog is much happier with me.

I don't want to hold the dog "hostage", but I feel like she can't just come pick up the dog now that it's Monday and the weekend is over and she's bored and wants to play with the dog the 4 hours she's awake before she crates the dog again. I feel like she abandoned the freaking cutest dog.

What should I do? What if she doesn't want the $$.  Sorry it's so long.

There's a lot more instances of neglect, etc...I tried to include everything, but let me know if there's more questions.


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"i tell you one lesson I learned If you want to be something in life, You ain't gonna get it unless, You give a little bit of sacrifice, Oohh, sometimes before you smile you got to cry.." -The Roots
Elle


Hermes

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I could not give the dog back in good conscience.  I personally do not think it's the right thing to do, morally, because of what you know about this dog's treatment. 

I would try to stay on good terms with M though - her being very mad at you could cause alot more headaches.  I would be really tempted to chew her out, but instead try to talk about how much you love the dog and how you were thinking about getting one anyway, and you'd be absolutely willing to pay her whatever she thinks is a fair price.  Would L back you up on the neglect if it came down to it?  Being that M was so neglectful, what's the chance that she registered the dog for a license?  If it's low I might do that, quickly, which would in theory establish you as the legal owner.

Poor pup sniff.gif.  It doesn't deserve to be treated that way by anyone ... give 'em some extra squeezes for us, okay?

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D


Hermes

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I would offer her money and visitation.

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sydney


Kate Spade

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D wrote:

I would offer her money and visitation.


Ouch - tha'ts tough, but I'd try this route too



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shopgirl82


Chanel

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Elle wrote:

I could not give the dog back in good conscience.  I personally do not think it's the right thing to do, morally, because of what you know about this dog's treatment. 


Thanks for the response.  That's how I feel.  I have a schedule that would allow her to not be in the cage as much, and the days that I would be gone 12 hours, I would make sure to have a dog walker.  I just can't bear to think of her being in a cage that long and being fed baby carrots when she runs out or is too cheap to pay for dog food.  The first time I watched her, she gave me 3 baby carrots to feed her for 2 days!

L used to call me a lot to complain about the dog so I ended up offering to watch her more like, "hey, I'm working from home tomorrow, I can watch the dog so she won't have to be in the cage all day".  She would usually say yes, then call me that night and ask if I could watch her longer.  Then several days later she would ask for the dog again.  I just feel like this is not fair to the dog.  L hasn't called me as much to complain about the dog but I think it's cuz I am watching the dog more and for longer periods of time. 

As far as L backing me up, I think should would, but I can't say 100% since I have seen her change her views when it works in her best interest.  She's not very confrontational. We have talked several times about sitting M down and feeling her out for me being the puppy's new owner since she is sick of taking care of two dogs and literally picking up afte M's mess. 

L, M, the other roommate and I all hang out on weekends so I wouldn't attack her.  I would point out that maybe I could offer her a better home and she's VERY happy with me.

I would definitely let her visit the dog and have the two dogs do play dates.



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"i tell you one lesson I learned If you want to be something in life, You ain't gonna get it unless, You give a little bit of sacrifice, Oohh, sometimes before you smile you got to cry.." -The Roots
shopgirl82


Chanel

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The other thing I want to add, is that I want to be her owner so I can have access to her papers, etc.. I went to pick her up and the dog was itching her ear, I looked and it looked like an infection. I told M, and M said she would take care of it, and I'm not sure she ever did (she changed the subject when I asked). I wanna make sure she has heartworm pills, flea stuff, etc.. and right now I can't cuz she's not really mine.

I just feel like if she doesn't take the money, I would want to call animal rescue since the dog is not being treated well. I can honestly say, I would be willing to lose the friendship over it since she's more of a "go out with and not get into any topic too serious newer" friend than a close friend.

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"i tell you one lesson I learned If you want to be something in life, You ain't gonna get it unless, You give a little bit of sacrifice, Oohh, sometimes before you smile you got to cry.." -The Roots
D


Hermes

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I would talk directly to her and say something like, "I in no way want to offend you, but I know that Dog (insert dog's name here) spends most of her time in the crate and is not getting the food, health care, exercise or attention he/she needs.  I'm sure you want the best for Dog, just as I do.  Maybe dog ownership is too difficult at this time in your life since you have such a full plate. I want to offer to buy her from you for $xx, and if you agree to this, I'd be happy to give you visitation.  If you want to think about it for a day or two, that would be fine.  As you know, I really love Dog, and I want to make sure she's happy and healthy." 

or something like that.  I would try to get her to admit that she is not giving the dog what it needs.  I would also try to not put her on the defensive or threaten her with reporting her, because you may never see that dog again.  It may take time to convince her as well.

I find it very bizarre that she told your friend she wanted the dog back.  Why didn't she show up when she said she would or call you herself?

Let us know how the offer goes over the phone before you return the dog to her for any reason... Maybe we can try the registration as a last resort.  I don't think that would hold up in court for ownership though.  If she was able to produce papers in court, you may have to give the dog back.


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stardust


Kenneth Cole

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 Aw- this is so sad and I can see you really love the puppy. Whereas it sounds like M is treating it as a plaything and not a serious reponsibility and commitment. I can only see things getting worse as the dog gets older and needs more healthcare and isn't a novelty.
I think what D suggested is the best bet. I think initially trying to be very non-judgemental (even though it's CLEAR that there is serious neglect) may be the best way of getting M to agree and that will then be the best for the dog.

Coming from a family that includes several veterinarians - people get very defensive when confronted about things like caring for an animal - and often take it as a personal insult even in cases where they are clearly poor owners. It's difficult- but you're doing a great thing looking out for the pup!

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cahabo


Kate Spade

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Just like 'D' suggested I would offer money and visitation. I recently had a similar experience with my brother's dog. We didn't pay him for the dog because we decided to have a co-ownership of sorts, but at our house we offer a much better life for the dog so it was a good deal for everyone.

Hopefully your friend won't turn down your offer, because if she really cares for the dog she'll want what's best for him. If she refuses, I seriously would call animal rescue.

The puppy is so cute, good luck!

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ViViDogWear


Kate Spade

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oh this is such a sad situation. i agree with D and suggest talking to your friend M. But not giving the dog over yet. You can approach it less as a "you're neglecting him" and more as an "I know you're really busy", "I have more time and miss DOG when he's not here" and "you'd be doing me a huge favor" and offer visitation, etc. You could even ask her if SHE could watch the dog when you're out of town.

Take the dog to the vet. It sounds like he may never have gone at all.  I would go ahead and do a city pet registration, etc if doesn't cost too much. You don't have to tell her you did unless it comes up later.  Plus it's usually a requirement to board a dog anywhere.  You'd need proof of vaccines and registration at least where I live you do.  You can say you needed to in order to take the dog to the park and vet, etc. And you needed to take the dog to the vet when it was sick.

Last resort, I'd bill her for the cost of how much her leaving the dog with you cost (food, travel, boarding, vet, registration, etc). She may eventually come to see that he is just too expensive and high maintenance for her to keep. A dog, no matter how small or big really is high maintenance like a child and cannot just be left alone for a week.

" I would want to call animal rescue since the dog is not being treated well. I can honestly say, I would be willing to lose the friendship over it since she's more of a "go out with and not get into any topic too serious newer" friend than a close friend. " This is the underlying fact. The dog means more thn the friendship - and probably more deservedly so as well. I would register the dog and take him to the vet. And hopefully reason and money will let you keep him. He's so adorable - and so young to already have a neglectful owner like that.

-- Edited by ViViDogWear at 21:44, 2009-01-27

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kenzie


Chanel

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This post makes me angry! Not at you, shopgirl82, but at M, who clearly doesn't deserve to have a loving, innocent puppy. I'd do what D said- money and visitation.

Also, you don't need the puppy's papers to take it to the vet. Just take her. And get her registered. Keep the vet bills, keep receipts for all food you purchase, just in case you need ammo later to prove you've been caring for the dog.

This is how so many puppies end up in shelters- owners get them because they're cute and then they don't properly care for them. Dogs are a responsibility and lots of people don't realize that. This puppy is lucky to have someone who wants her and hopefully, because of that, she won't end up in a shelter.

What an adorable little puppy! I hope you get to keep her- both for her sake and for yours (sounds like you really love her).

-- Edited by kenzie at 10:52, 2009-01-27

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relrel


Marc Jacobs

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kenzie wrote:
Also, you don't need the puppy's papers to take it to the vet. Just take her. And get her registered. Keep the vet bills, keep receipts for all food you purchase, just in case you need ammo later to prove you've been caring for the dog.


This is how so many puppies end up in shelters- owners get them because they're cute and then they don't properly care for them. Dogs are a responsibility and lots of people don't realize that. This puppy is lucky to have someone who wants her and hopefully, because of that, she won't end up in a shelter.

What an adorable little puppy! I hope you get to keep her- both for her sake and for yours (sounds like you really love her).

-- Edited by kenzie at 10:52, 2009-01-27


I agree with just about everybody-- in as gentle a way as possible, keep the dog and offer your "friend" visitation rights.

I do have a couple of suggestions/comments:

1. Take the dog to the vet! The vet can always check for titers to the vaccines that dogs normally should get so that the puppy doesn't have to get repeated shots. Also, and this is super, super important- get that dog spayed, if she's not already done so! For girl dogs, it's done before the first heat, which she might have already  had if she's nine months and has a crappy owner.

2. I would call up a rescue program in your area (not a ASPCA shelter or Humane Society shelter) and ask them their opinion. Rescue programs (at least the ones that I have worked with) are super good about approaching people/families with pets they can't handle and getting them to give the dog up. It's always possible that the rescue program, because they would be an independent, objective group, would be better able to convince your friend to give the dog up. Depending on how close you are and how much time you would spend with her and the other friend, the original owner might never have to know that you got the dog. Or the rescue program might even be able to find the dog a completely different owner if that would be easier on the friendship.

3. Please, do not offer this fool very much money if that's what it comes down to. I know that it will be tough to not offer M what she paid for the puppy, but she's not going to learn her lesson or in any way be punished for what she's done to the dog. She hasn't put any money or time into the puppy so why should she even hope to break even from what she orginially paid?

Good luck with everything! If you do get the darling, let us know and post pictures!



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tara t


Marc Jacobs

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poor pup. 

i agree with the money and visitation.  D's conversation sounds perfect.

it's too bad that you would have to pay her to stop neglecting her dog.  she sounds like she sucks.



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shopgirl82


Chanel

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Thanks for everyone's advice!! I was so upset about the situation and felt so emotional that I was wondering if I was "too in my head" about the whole thing. Thanks for making me realize I wasn't overreacting.

Things did not work out the way I wanted them to and to make a long story short, she picked up the dog when I was passed out with the flu. I talked things over with her roommates before she came over and before I got sick and they suggested that I just talk to her and offer her some money and she'd most likely take it and they would back her up in that decision. They also said that come the beginning of the week, she's home and bored and ready to play with the dog, and when the weekend's here, she's glad to be rid of the responsibility.

It's a classic case of thinking the puppy is super cute and fun, but forgetting what a responsibility it is. The dog has been fixed (but it happened after she was in heat) and is registered to her which makes me sad and happy at the same time.

I plan on seeing her on Friday and will pretty much use D's exact dialouge. I think it's perfect. I will also have receipts of all the costs and estimates of what it would cost to board the dog, just in case I need to use it for negotiation. I doubt it, but I will offer her a fair amount based on how much I have already spent on the dog. It just stinks that I was so sick and asleep when she picked up the dog that I couldn't do anything at the time about the situation.

Thanks so much for all the advice and letting me know I wasn't overreacting. I will keep everyone updated.

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"i tell you one lesson I learned If you want to be something in life, You ain't gonna get it unless, You give a little bit of sacrifice, Oohh, sometimes before you smile you got to cry.." -The Roots
D


Hermes

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any updates, shopgirl?

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shopgirl82


Chanel

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Good news!  I'm a proud new owner of Chalupa!  I changed the name since I hated the name (too masculine) and since the puppy is such a piggy and there was a Taco Bell commercial on when I was thinking of names (she was almost Gordita).  

So I learned, after texting her as a friend about random stuff, that she was pretty much gone from 6am till 10pm everyday last week.  Which meant that either the roommate was taking care of Chalupa, or the puppy was in the cage all day.  I used this to my benefit since it seemed like when she was busy, she didn't miss the dog.  

I basically used D's dialogue and emphasizing that I don't think she's a bad owner, just maybe too busy.  I told her when I was her age, I would've in no way been ready to own a dog (I'm only 2.5 yrs older, but there's a huge difference).  I told her I would love to compensate her and be registered as her owner.  I also told her that should could visit the puppy and that I would bring the dog by so that the two puppies (sisters) can still play together.  

I just told her that I thought it was best for the dog to have a stable environment, and not have to be in the cage so much.  

Thanks so much for the advice and the courage to know that I was doing the right thing.  


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"i tell you one lesson I learned If you want to be something in life, You ain't gonna get it unless, You give a little bit of sacrifice, Oohh, sometimes before you smile you got to cry.." -The Roots
Kelly


Hermes

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That's awesome!!! Congratulations!! She is so lucky to have you looking out for her! clap.gif

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XtinaStyles


Marc Jacobs

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Woohoo! Glad everything worked out for everyone!!!

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Claudia


Gucci

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I'm glad it worked out for you!

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D


Hermes

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excellent! I'm so happy for you and Chalupa! yay!

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"Fashion can be bought. Style one must possess." ~ Edna Woolman Chase
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