STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

blink · Coach

RE: Advice Needed Re Marriage Finances

Hillary Bynum · Nine West

Yes, I understand. Its just that he cant expect me to cook for him every night while I work. I dont want to work and he knows that. But while I am, there is no difference between us (even if his job is more stressful and he has a few longer hours each day). We have a plan where we eat out 3 times a week and then cook the rest of the time (that plan has not really been put into effect though). I dont like cooking - my mom has come over to show me how to do some but it's such a process from prep to cooking to clean up. I keep telling my husband that we should get a dog and his response to me is that I havent even shown that I can take care of the house so how am I supposed to also have a dog? I feel like he wants everything mapped out on paper to a T; whether its who does what or when. I just want to let things come naturally. He says if it comes naturally it will basically never happen. For example, last night he seemed agitated with me for the following reason: He got home from work at 9 (we are planning to go the europe soon so he's been working late). I wasnt home (I was at my moms picking stuff up so I got back close to 930 or 945). By the time I got back, he was done with dinner and I said we should try to do some laundry and put the dishes in the dishwasher. So I brought out the hamper and we loaded up the machine. Then I went to go tidy up my own closet and get ready for bed. In the meantime he rinsed the dishes and put them in the dishwasher alone (I said I would have helped but he said it didnt matter). Then he took out all the trash for pick up in the monring. By this time it was 1030 and I was getting ready to sleep. He said, but the washer isnt done and it still needs to go in the dryer. I told him its late and I was sleeping. So he nicely said, fine but I'll have to dry them tonight or it will get wrinkled. I went to bed and he then loaded up the dryer and watched some tv while I slept. I dont think he minded or was upset but he seemed agitated. He keeps saying that when I say "we", I internally mean "you" - which is not true. I got upset at him because we've been meaning to send a thank you card and wedding photo to a priest on the east coast who helped us out. Its been way to long and it needs to get done - everytime I say, can we pick a picture and send it he says to me - just pick a picture from the box, this guy is not a family member, just pick any picture you want and give it to me and I'll send it off - that's not fun. Oh well - we'll see how this all plays out.

XtinaStyles · Marc Jacobs

It seems like your hubby might be doing more than his share of the work....

You are working but you don't want to.
You don't want to cook.
You don't want to clean.
You don't want to handle bills or legal matters.

So.. what do you want to do?

FashionPrincess · Hermes

Ok, if he is working late so you all can go to Europe then you also need to step up and do more stuff at home. I'm not usually this blunt on the forum but you are starting to sound like a spoiled brat.

Cortney1982 · Chanel

Would it have been that difficult to put the clothes in the dryer? Only takes a minute. Besides that, if you let them sit in there all night, they would have mildewed.

I'm kinda getting the drift you didn't have any responsibilites while you were living at home. We all have to do things we don't want to do, it's part of life! I think once you make a routine of work and household chores it will become easier for you.

Kelly · Hermes

FashionPrincess wrote:

Ok, if he is working late so you all can go to Europe then you also need to step up and do more stuff at home. I'm not usually this blunt on the forum but you are starting to sound like a spoiled brat.

ITA. It sounds like this adjustment is bigger than you bargained for. It will be tough for a while but honestly, it's time to grow up and be a wife he can depend on. It sounds like you take him for granted.

Sibeski · Dooney & Bourke

Ok. Marriage is not fair and neither is life. Hubby can expect you to cook dinner for him every night - whether you are working or not. You expect many things from him (transition, understand, guide) but bristle at reciprocation. To me, it sounds as if you expect him to fill in as the role of parent, not husband.

      "However, there are things that I dont want to think about (i.e. bills, mortgage, insurances, and all those everyday items - those are his responsibilties to keep in check) which he happily handles. He also tells me that he 'expects' me to make him dinner when he comes home from work in the evenings (about 2 or 3 times a week) and if he's available to help he will, but if he's not, he's not. I dont like that and think he should not 'expect' anything from me. He didnt marry a maid/nanny."

He didn't marry a maid/nanny but you did not marry a financial counselor or a "handler." You married each other and now you need to act like it. Are you angry that you continue to work outside of the home? Would you not mind cooking and cleaning if you didn't have to "go to work" also? Or do you feel like hubby isn't pitching in? I'm just trying to understand the situation.

I really think counseling could help you two find a middle-ground. Hubby and I were together for seven years before we got married and we still went to premarital counseling. We thought it would be helpful as we had never lived together and it was. We discussed all of the issues you have mentioned, and then some. That's not to say we haven't ever disagreed about them biggrin .

My Nana gave me the best marital advice I have ever received. She said, "every day - EVERY DAY (she really stressed that) you will feel like you are giving more than you are getting. But you're not." My grandparent's have been married for 69 years so I figure she's got some experience. When I am fuming over needing to get the dishes done,  the kid's bathed, the clothes folded, and actually shave my leg's I try to think of what he is giving up. Even if it's nothing to me it's something to him.

Suasoria · Chanel

Hillary, I'm sure your heart is in the right place, but...

The answer to your initial question is simple - yes, you're in the wrong. Change your beneficiary to your DH, because you and he are a family now. As for why he keeps pushing it, he's answered you: he wants to feel like you're committed to him and your life together. He wants to know you're a family.

Given the other issues you mention, I can understand why he needs these symbolic gestures from you. You're not giving him the substantive, tangible gestures that show you care for him - like taking his name, doing things around the house, making sure he has a clean shirt, showing appreciation for him working hard to take you to Europe, etc.

It's funny that you have such high expectations/standards for him, but you're not willing to accept any for yourself - you even seem offended by the notion that you should do things for your family. I'm sure you can understand why that isn't fair.

I absolutely agree with you that counseling is in order. You said you didn't think it would provide "amazing insight," but that's not exactly the goal. In counseling you can learn tools to communicate better, and this makes all the difference. Good communication makes a big problem become smaller, but bad communication makes a small problem become bigger - which is what's going on now with arguments over who takes whose clothes to the cleaners!

One other good reason to go to counseling: because he's asked you to. If you're a team player, and you must be trying to be or you wouldn't be looking for advice here, you'll at least try it.

Like Sibeski's grandma, I sometimes say marriage isn't 50-50, it's 60-40, with both partners feeling like they're giving 60%, or taking turns giving a little more and a little less based on what life is dealing them in that moment. Reading your posts, you don't seem to understand the responsibility and commitment of marriage, or maybe you have a narrow definition of what marriage actually is. You aren't just two roommates who had a wedding, you're a family.

Hillary Bynum · Nine West

Thank you to all. I apprecaite all of the help. I know that I am spoiled. However, isnt some of this on him? Its not as if this is all a newsflash to him. He knew the kind of person I was - yes he's told me what he would like and what he 'expects' but its not like I've changed into some monster - I'm the same person that he was with for 4 years before marriage. We just live in a house together now. I cant be expected to make sweeping changes over night and be somebody that I have not been my entire life leading up to the marriage. He knows that I am not fond of cooking, he knows that I didnt plan on working forever, he knew that I would prefer to have a god, spend my days without the burdens and stresses of work and be happy. He told me that as long as I'm happy - he would be happy and that he's never considered my income as a contributing factor when planning for the family anyways - he's confirmed these things to me. He knew I really didnt do laundry or dishes or cooking before moving in with him. Yes, I know that I could have learned these things or had a desire to do them before moving in but I didnt - I cant be branded as a terrible person for this. I dont think its fair to call me spoiled. I work, I pay my own car lease (recently), and I run my own personal errands. Fine - I may not voluntarily ask him if his work clothes need dry cleaning or I may not have the perfect dinner with candles waiting for him when he gets home but he knew this.

Starstuff · Kenneth Cole

Hillary Bynum wrote:

...I dont want to work and he knows that. But while I am, there is no difference between us (even if his job is more stressful and he has a few longer hours each day). We have a plan where we eat out 3 times a week and then cook the rest of the time (that plan has not really been put into effect though). I dont like cooking - my mom has come over to show me how to do some but it's such a process from prep to cooking to clean up. ... Oh well - we'll see how this all plays out.

It can be intimidating to learn to cook. My advice is to learn a few simple dishes -- pan fried chicken tenders, rice from a rice cooker, and a block of frozen veggies in the microwave. Minimal actual cooking involved. My guess is your husband is not looking for a gourmet meal every night, just a simple dinner. The more you practice, the better you'll get at cooking (if you're even interested in learning).

The impression I get is that you're being incredibly passive in your relationship. You seem to expect your husband to take care of everything for you. Since you haven't lived on your own for an extended period of time, you probably haven't even had to think about the things he's asking you to do (cook, pay bills, etc.) According to your profile you were born in 1980 -- so you're approx 28 years old. You're an adult. It seems like you're waiting for your relationship to either get better on its own, or to disintegrate on its own. If you don't put in any effort, you will be unhappy with your husband and your marriage. The fact that your husband wants to put in the effort to see a counsel speaks volumes about how committed he is to your marriage. The fact that you're ambivalent about seeing a counselor speaks volumes too.

Starstuff · Kenneth Cole

Hillary Bynum wrote:

... I know that I am spoiled. ... I dont think its fair to call me spoiled.

Sibeski · Dooney & Bourke

Hillary Bynum wrote:
He knows that I am not fond of cooking, he knows that I didnt plan on working forever, he knew that I would prefer to have a god, spend my days without the burdens and stresses of work and be happy.

What would need to change in your relationship to make you happy?

Kelly · Hermes

Not to be harsh, but we would all rather not have the burden or stresses of work from everyday life and we would all be happier without it. I think it's great that you found a man who will be willing to support you if you stay at home and be OK with that, but until you get to that point I don't think it's fair to give up on everything else. If you stayed at home all day, would you be willing to do the laundry, cooking, cleaning, then?

I understand that this is all new to you, and that he knew who you were before you got married. But my guess is that he expected that things would change once you moved out of your parents' house and didn't have your mom cooking, cleaning, etc for you anymore. I mean, someone's gotta do it. Maybe he (rightfully, in my opinion) figured that you would assume a "grown up" role once you were out of your parents' nest.

exsupahero · Kate Spade

You make too many excuses. Unless you're gonna hire a maid and a cook, both of you are gonna have to figure out how to split the housework chores. Plus it's never too late to learn to cook and clean.

esquiress · Marc Jacobs

Dipping toes into deep water...deep breath...and...diving in!

To all the st'ers who've given such caring advice:

You all are amazingly generous. Seriously, such sweethearts. Because the fact of the matter is, we didn't even "know" this girl, not even as a member on the forum, until this very thread. Yet here you all are, with arms and hearts wide open, offering really thoughtful caring advice.

Having said that, you guys, we don't even know this girl. She could be some random who made up a story and is trolling for attention for all we know. Assuming she's telling the truth, she sounds like she's just whining really, not actually looking to solve the problem(s) or follow all the good advice. Kinda just searching for commiseration and validation more than anything else.

Now, having said all THAT, the portrait she's painted isn't really all that unique. It's pretty generic actually. Young girl goes straight from parents' house to hubby's house and doesn't really know or want to know about being a wife. Just thought they could be happy together and is annoyed at all these new demands. To a certain degree I sympathize because I think hubby was deluding himself when he married her. How did he expect her to cook, clean, run a household, take care of his needs, etc., etc., when she's never shown any sign of doing any of that behavior? Did he just expect her to turn into Suzy Homemaker in the blink of an eye?

Bottom line is either they're going to work through the kinks and learn how to articulate their needs better or they're not. Counseling is probably a step in the right direction but no one can fight the fight for them so hopefully, they're up to the challenge.

Hillary Bynum · Nine West

Thank you Esquiress. Please note that I am very real and very recent to the forum. My first post happened to be on this issue (as its more important than the various other topics I'd eventually post about i.e. fashion, polls, etc.). I look forward to being a part of the forum and I sincerely do appreciate everyone's input.

sheisfabulous · Nine West

My husband is a financial planner and I am not acting as a financial guru, nor do I play one on TV....but from what I understand you do need to have him as the beneficiary. Otherwise, it would become a huge probate issue. Of course, this is only "if something happens" but nobody ever plans to get broadsided on the way to work like a school teacher from our district who died last week did.

If you weren't prepared to sign the documents as a married couple with join assets and interests, why did you meet with the finance guy? Just curious.

Suasoria · Chanel

Hillary Bynum wrote:

I'm the same person that he was with for 4 years before marriage. We just live in a house together now.

What I was trying to explain to you earlier is that this isn't true...only the way I tried to express it was "You aren't just two roommates who had a wedding, you're a family." You aren't the same person you were, whether you appreciate it or realize it yet or not. You have changed. Your life has changed, your role and responsibilities and place in this world has changed.

When your life changes so importantly, you change too - at least a sane, mature person would. My husband and I lived together for seven years before we got married, and I assure you, marriage changes things. (People don't want to admit it, since nobody would ever get married if they knew this.)

I am not saying you should turn into Suzy Homemaker overnight, because I think your current challenge isn't really about who takes out the trash, puts gas in the car, or makes dinner. I think it's about finding out who the "new you" is. My guess is she is somewhere between a traditional person who doesn't cohabitate before marriage and wants to be a stay-at-home wife/mom, and someone who rebels against the traditional roles for women you mention, like cooking and cleaning. I can see how these traditional/nontraditional sides would create conflict, both internally and in your relationship.

But the realities of modern life, unfortunately, tend to shake down to this: most women make less money and attain lower levels in their careers than most men. In most cases, the one who has more free time and has a lower-pressure job takes on a bigger portion of the household tasks involved in keeping a family running smoothly. At the moment, that's you. If you want to change this paradigm, I advise you to work harder than your husband, earn more money, and outshine him career-wise. That's what I did. (My husband is thrilled that his wife is the breadwinner.)

You certainly could set aside some of your own salary for household help, and this would free up your time to accomplish other things. Loads of women couldn't get by without help in some form, either cleaning or childcare, particularly women with careers they love who work a lot of hours or travel on business frequently. I even know a grad student with only a part-time job who makes sure she always has a few twenties left over at the end of the month to pay a cleaning person, because her schedule is too crazy to manage it alone, and coming home to a dirty apartment makes her want to cry.

While the point is a good one that all of us would like to be free of the burden of everyday stress, there are actually quite a few people who don't think of cooking up a good meal as drudgery, they think of it as a creative outlet. Sometimes I start daydreaming about what I'm going to make for dinner around lunchtime. There are even some who find it satisfying to keep their house looking great, provided that includes shopping for their home. And balancing my checkbook gives me a huge sense of accomplishment...I did terribly in math class, so every time I do it I go "ha, SUCKAS!"

There are all kinds of little victories and triumphs in life if you know where to look.

jacL · Coach

I really don't have anything to add that has not already been said ( I feel Luv2Shop and Suasoria said most of what I would have anyway), but I just want to stress that I think you two need counseling.

A co-worker of mine just became engaged and though she lived with her bf for a year before he proposed, he still went to her mother to talk to her about it first. Her mother was very happy, but had a very long talk with him, asking if they had talked about current and future finances, when/if to have children and how to raise them, religion, expectations, hopes and dreams...all that important stuff that it doesn't really sound like you have mapped out with your husband. Please see a counselor so that you two can start your marriage out on the right track.

It is an adjustment, but I agree, you need to grow up. And as for him being your beneficiary--there should not be a question about it. Why resist it if you have chosen him to be your life partner?

-- Edited by jacL at 11:42, 2008-10-08

twinkle_star · Kenneth Cole

I work full time and so does my bf. I now earn more than he does but I still like to do things for him because I care about him and want him to know it. I like to cook him dinner (last night we had salmon (8 mins in the broiler) and asparagus (5 mins in the microwave), he'd had a long day and was so appreciative that I'd cooked. I will iron his shirts if I'm ironing for myself and will pick up stuff he needs when I run errands for myself. And I definitely get reciprocation from him. He does other stuff around the house including dealing with the dishes, which I hate! He cooks dinner on nights when I don't feel like it and will go to the store and run errands as well. It's those small things that show that we care about eachother and are part of what makes us a family. Not to be mean but what do you do for your husband that shows that you care?