STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

Living together can be wonderful.  You get to have every weekend morning together to snuggle, make breakfast, camp in for the day, always have someone to do things with, someone to cook fun meals for (and vice versa), ect.

As I'm sure you know, it's not always wonderful, and that's why your asking about guidelines for what works (because I'm sure you both want it to work and are excited to be together.)

However, the initial fun does wear off eventually.  That's natural. 

There is also a high risk reality you should be aware of too.

This isn't probably what you want to hear, but I would never move in with someone without a plan to get married.  Not being married is very easy to just walk away from, and you have no legal protection financially if it doesn't work out (and inevitably he will owe you a lot of money if it doesn't work -- I'm speaking from personal and friends' experiences. every single one turns out the same way.)  A girlfriend of mine's "soulmate" of 15 years just dumped her and immediately got married to the person he was cheating with -- never in a million years did she anticipate this, and she's realizing a financial loss that she's going to have to write off... 

Other than that, you have to learn to not sweat the small stuff. If you let the little things that bother you get to you, your anger will fester and will be almost impossible to ignore.  Open communication and an easy-going attitude are key.

Other than that, living together is like being married. At the very least I would get a joint account where you both put money in for predetermined monthly expenses.  You might also want to sit down and talk about who's going to do what chores or how you will split chores.

Remember that people are who they are and don't expect to change him if there's things that get on your nerves. Yes, you can talk and work out things like the toilet seat, but if there's an overall attitude of not being a fair team player that's a red flag, and something you probably wouldn't be able to work through.

Good luck, and I hope it all goes swimmingly -- I really do

-- Edited by D at 13:23, 2008-09-22

gingembre1 wrote:

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D - Thanks for the advice! How exactly did you and/or your friends end up being owed money? I just want to avoid any pitfalls. We're definitely not planning on buying a car or furniture or anything major together. The condo is in my name, and always will be.

My boyfriend and I have talked about marriage, but it's a good 3 to 4 years away at least. He's a very upstanding fellow, and I've explained to him that just because he's moving in, that doesn't mean the proverbial cow is just giving the milk away for free. He'll have to pay up someday. ;)

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In my situations (2), I lost a lot of possessions.  In both instances I left and had difficulty obtaining all my belongings afterward.  In the case of the second time around, he set up a phone in my name and I had to pay off his bill of $800 in order to get a phone (this is from back in the day of land lines - the phone was in my name and instead of shutting it off, he had it transferred to another address without me knowing about it.)  It was worth it to me to just pay the money so I wouldn't have to have any contact with him (an ulterior motive of his I'm sure - he was rather manipulative and abusive.)  In my girlfriend's case he owes her something like $3000 for misc. expenses he said he would pay her back for. All I'm saying is it's a risk, and the break up can result in loss of possessions and money.

Marriage is nothing to take lightly, and I'm glad you guys are talking about it.  A lot of people just go into living together to "see how it goes" - that's kind of what I'm warning about -- living together is nothing to be taken lightly either.

One more tidbit of information.  And I'm sure there will be people that strongly disagree with me (if they haven't already .)  There have been studies that show that people that enter into marriage within the first two years of a relationship have a higher percentage of staying married.  This can be attributed to entering into the marriage while you're still "on good behavior." It's argued that this can set the tone for the the marriage.  Of course you can take or leave that information - but it's food for thought.  All I can say is I knew about this study before I got married and got married right at the 2 year mark.  Not that my marriage has been perfect, but we've been together for 11 years and neither of us is going anywhere

Well - as someone who recently moved OUT of a live-in boyfriend situation, I do find that I had some regrets.  If I had to do it again, I would make sure that our relationship was 100% solid before making the move.  2nd, I'd make sure that I put my furniture in storage or left it with a friend/family.  3rd, I'd make a CLEAR CONTRACT of how the bills and cleaning duties would be divided and stick to them, without making excuses for him.  4th, I would make a conscious effort to still get out and do things, go on dates, etc.  Since you'll be seeing eachother so often you'll be tempted not to go out, not to make specific plans, you'll see eachother in stained sweatpants, etc.  Keep the creativity going.  

I think I have a different perspective on the whole thing than other posters.  I've been w/my boyfriend 6.5 years and we've lived together for 4.  I never looked at it as a business deal, and I would never have moved in with him if we didn't plan to marry eachother.  Nor would I marry someone ever w/out living w/them first.  I knew my boyfriend very well when I moved in with him - we had been together 2.5 years, but you really learn a lot about someone when you live together.  I personally would never get married w/in the first two years of dating someone.  I personally don't think you know that person well enough, so I disagree about the statistic that D posted where marriages have a better chance of working out if you do it w/in those first two years

Anyhow, SO and I talk about getting married all the time.  We both want it.  Neither of us are the type of people to move in together and get lazy about getting married. 

We have a joint checking account that we put money into for the bills.  I handle paying all of the bills.  We don't really view money as "mine" though - it's ours.  It's shared.  We both contribute to the household and I would never have him owe me money for something or vice versa.  If something needs to be covered and I don't have the money, he picks up the slack and vice versa.  Neither of us are the type to view things as business transactions.  It's a relationship and a partnership.  I'm not saying to be naive and put yourself in the position to lose everything, but honestly, if I had paid some bills for SO and we broke up, I wouldn't hold him to that money, and he wouldn't do that to me either.  We rent and both of our names are on our lease.  We own furniture and possessions together, heck we own a dog together.  We would work it out if we broke up.  Some may think I'm stupid or naive, but I honestly don't feel I have much to lose. 

Maybe we not realists but that's just how we are and it works   You will figure it out as you go - it's different for every couple IMO.  One piece of advice - don't sweat the small stuff.  It's not worth the argument!  Good luck - living w/my SO is the best thing I've ever done, and I couldn't be happier.

Found some information that you might find helpful:

So, you're in a Serious Relationship - exciting, isn't it? Love truly is a wonderful thing!

Below are are some specific suggestions for you Love Birds to consider:

1) Do not rush to get married. Were you aware that the average age of a person in America when they get married is now about 26 years old? And that, in general, the older a couple is, the greater the chance that their marriage will go the distance? Accordng to the National Center for Health Statistics, 59% of first marriages between couples who are18 years of age or younger end in divorce within the first fifteen years while only 35% of those between couples who get married at the age of 25 or older end in a divorce within that same time period. Wow! What a difference a few years makes!

2) Take things slow and easy. If he (or she) really is "The One" for you, there is absolutely no need to rush things. Get to know each other well, in a variety of situations, before pledging undying love to each other. Relationships that begin with a foundation on friendship are usually much more stable in the long run than those that "rush to euphoria", only to later crash and burn. The wisdom of this type of approach was highlighted in an article published in the L.A. Times on December 16th, 2002 entitled "The Brain in Love". The article discussed a long-term study being conducted by the University of Texas in Austin which "identified three paths through early courtship: fast and passionate, slow and rocky, and in-between. The fast-track group, about 25% of the total, usually were interdependent within weeks, tended to ignore or forget their initial problems and were committed to marriage within several months. By contrast, the slow-motion group took an average of two years to reach a commitment, spending up to six painstaking months in each stage. Yet when it came to success at the 13-year mark, the tortoises won out. According to Ted Huston, the study's lead investigator, "The more boring and deliberate the courtship, the better the prospects for a long marriage, I'm afraid. People who had very intense, Hollywood-type romances at the beginning were likely to have a big drop-off later on, and this often changed their view of the other's character". So, slow and steady wins the race.

3) Become educated about Relationships. How? First step is by reading. While there are a number of very good books about this topic, we recommend the book entitled "Relationships", written by Les and Leslie Parrott, as an excellent place to start.

4) Develop heathy communications skills and conflict resolution skills. Dr. John Gottman of the University of Washington is able to predict with a 91% accuracy level whether a couple's marriage will succeed or fail by observing them interacting with each other for as little as five minutes. Five minutes! And it's not a matter of whether the couple argues or not that is key, but rather HOW they argue - and how they treat each other when they argue - that turns out to be the most important factor in a couple's long-term success together. Each couple develops its own particular "pattern of interaction" in a relationship. While a "positive pattern of interaction" will build each person, and the relationship, up, a "negative pattern of interaction" will usually tear each person, and the relationship, down. The good news is that positive patterns of interactions, can be learned. However, the earlier in a relationship that healthy communications and conflict resolution skills are learned and put into place, the easier it is to make changes - before "bad habits" get too heavily ingrained. A number of resources exist to learn these healthy communication and conflict resolution skills, several of which are contained in various places on this web site. Sections on this web site that contain this information are the section for Engaged Couples, and the sub-sections lableled Marriage Classes and Recommended Reading under the Marriage Enrichment section.

5) Avoid living together. Have you ever heard someone say that they were going to move in with their boyfriend or girlfriend as a "trial marriage"? Guess what - it doesn't work! Recent research by the University of Wisconsin indicates that 40% of cohabitants break up before getting married. And those who do end up marrying each other after living together experience a 50% higher divorce rate than couples who had not lived together. So instead of experiencing a 50% divorce rate, these couples experience a 75% divorce rate. Overall, therefore, what we find is that only 15% of couples who live together before getting married end up in a lasting marriage. OUCH! Okay, let's go through those numbers again, more slowly. Let's say we start with 100 unmarried couples who decide to live together. We can expect that 40 of those will break up instead of getting married; that leaves 60 couples who end up getting married. But 45 of those couples (75%) will end up divorcing - leaving only 15 of our original 100 couples in a lasting marriage. Conclusion: if you want to increase your odds of being in a lasting relationship, do NOT cohabitate; it just doesn't work. And this University of Wisconsin study is only one of many that give similar results. For an interesting discussion of why living together fails miserably as a "trial marriage", as well as a review of a number of other studies that give similar results as the University of Wisconsin study, check out two articles written by Dr. Willard Harley. To find those articles, visit Dr. Harley's website at www.marriagebuilders.com. From the main menu, select "Q&A Columns", then "Preparing for Marriage" and then the two articles "Living Together Before Marriage #!" and "Living Together Before Marriage #2".

6) If it looks like this relationship may be getting serious enough that the two of think that it could lead to marriage some day, we strongly suggest that you take a premarital inventory such as FOCUS, PREPARE, or RELATE well before you actually get engaged. Any of these inventories will give you a roadmap of areas in your relationship that you still need to talk about together before you make your final decision concerning your future together. Many churches offer one of these instruments to their engaged couples as part of their marriage preparation process, and most will be willing to let non-members take it as well. Be prepared for them to be surprised at your request - most couples are not forward-thinking enough to take this step, but once you do you will be glad you did.

7) If the two of you do decide to get married, participate in the most rigorous Marriage Preparation Program you can find. Go above and beyond any "required" classes the person who is performing the ceremony may require you to take - this is your marriage, not theirs. This is your future happiness at stake - not theirs. You will find that the time you spend in these types of courses will definitely pay off. Studies conducted by the University of Denver show that those couples who participate in a true "World Class" Marriage Preparation program reduce their probabilities of divorce within the first five years by two-thirds. And it makes sense, doesn't it? We take classes before gettng our driver's license, don't we? We take classes before becoming an architect, or teacher, or nurse, or doctor, or engineer. Why shouldn't we take classes before entering into a much more permanent "line of work" - marriage? Being married is a "skilled profession", and the good news is that the necessary skills can be taught and they can be learned. The "Engaged Couples" section of this web site will show you a number of resources available for you to customize your own Marriage Preparation Program. Please, please, please - do not skimp in this area. The time you spend preparing for your marriage will have a much greater impact on your life than the time you spend preparing for your wedding. Remember - a wedding is just a day but a marriage is a lifetime, and we want the life you share together to be the most wonderful it can be.

8) And once you are married, continue to invest in the relationship. Good marriages do not "just happen". They are built. You wouldn't plant a garden and then never water it, would you? Or buy a car and never change the oil? We all understand that neglecting our gardens or our cars will cause them to die. The same is true with our relationships - especially our marriage relationships. If we do not continue to invest in our marriages they will die, just like anything else in the world. We strongly suggest that you participate in at least one structured Marriage Enrichment event each and every year of your marriage. These include Married Couples Retreats, or a class series on Marriage, or participating in an ongoing Married Couples Fellowship group at your church (or at a nearby church if your particular church does not happen to offer them). This web site's sections for Newly Married Couples and Marriage Enrichment are full of those types of resources.

9) And if your marriage ever starts to experience problems, get help right away. The sooner the problems are addressed, the easier they are to fix. A recent study found that only 10% of couples who got divorced sought help from a professional counselor before filing for divorce, and that those who did get help had been experiencing problems in their marriages an average of six years before they sought help. If you broke your leg skiing, would you wait six years before you went to the doctor? Don't treat your marriage any worse than you would treat an injured leg. Here's a commitment to make to each other before you get married - mutually agree that if either of you ever feel like your marriage could use some outside assistance that you both will go in for help together.

10) Once your relationship gets serious, and you begin to talk about marriage, print this page out and go over it with your Significant Other. Focus especially on the paragraphs numbered seven, eight and nine. Ask probing questions such as:

• "If we got engaged, would you be willing to take the time to participate in as thorough a Marriage Preparation Process as we could find?"
• "If we got married, would you be willing to participate with me in at least one structured Marriage Enrichment activity each and every year of our lives together?"
• "Would you be willing to agree, up front, that if we did get married that one of the "rules" of our marriage would be that we would both be willing to participate in marriage counseling at any time that either of us requested it?"

This is a very important discussion to have. Not only will it give each of you an indication of how much commitment and dedication each of you would be willing to give a future long-term relationship, it may well be setting out guidelines that will keep an eventual marriage relationship on track "as long as you both shall live". And that really is what you are looking for in a marriage - isn't it? - a promise that will last a lifetime.

XtinaStyles wrote:

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5) Avoid living together. (I totally disagree - TOTALLY!) I am sure this varies from person to person but I never ever had an inkling that my ex was an alcoholic. Sure, he was a social drinker with me. I moved in and learned that he drank a bottle of vodka every night/every other night. I would have never known otherwise.

Anyways I think these statistics are skewed. People who don't live together first but are married are less likely to break up because they have more to lose and more complications than just getting a new place to live.

Don't mean to threadjack but this got me heated!

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This does bring up a good point.  One thing I do wonder about is how many of the people who don't divorce that never lived together are really in a happy marriage.  Are these couples that didn't previously cohabitate the same people who don't believe in divorce (i.e. strongly religious, etc.)?  I'm sure this has something to do with the statistic.

 

I agree that I've always looked at those studies not to say that it's the not living together before marriage that helps your marriage last. I think it's that those with more traditional views on relationships (e.g. they don't want to live together before married) are also more likely to have more traditional views on marriage (e.g. won't divorce as easily)

XtinaStyles wrote:

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5) Avoid living together. (I totally disagree - TOTALLY!) I am sure this varies from person to person but I never ever had an inkling that my ex was an alcoholic. Sure, he was a social drinker with me. I moved in and learned that he drank a bottle of vodka every night/every other night. I would have never known otherwise.

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how long did you know him before you moved in together?

D - no need for the disclaimer, it was a good post, but I never believe in statistics!

To answer your question, I knew him for about 4 years, had been dating him for about 3. Anyways, I am not saying that it is inevitable that you will find that your man is up to no good, but in my sitiuation, I ABSOLUTELY would have married him if he asked me (before living with him) but am so grateful that I had the experience and learned that it wasn't for me.