STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

clothes_horse · Dooney & Bourke

McCain's VP choice.. smart or iffy?

relrel · Marc Jacobs

Can I go with a third option? Neither smart, nor iffy...just plain confusing. I'm not gonna say anything about her politics but I'm just so bewildered why McCain would pick somebody who's currently involved in an ethics investigation and someone who embodies exactly what he's been knocking Obama for: inexperience. I totally understand picking a younger woman to try to woo HRC supportors as well as to fight fire with fire (you want change? instead of a black man, how about a white woman?), but why pick this woman? Just so confusing.

ILoveChoo · Hermes

relrel wrote:

Can I go with a third option? Neither smart, nor iffy...just plain confusing. I'm not gonna say anything about her politics but I'm just so bewildered why McCain would pick somebody who's currently involved in an ethics investigation and someone who embodies exactly what he's been knocking Obama for: inexperience. I totally understand picking a younger woman to try to woo HRC supportors as well as to fight fire with fire (you want change? instead of a black man, how about a white woman?), but why pick this woman? Just so confusing.

ITA. I think there are other GOP women who would make more sense.

gingembre1 · Kate Spade

I'm going with a fourth option: Insulting. I feel like he is condescending to women by basically saying "You'll vote for me just because I have a female running mate." He's basically saying that we're not smart enough to pick a candidate based on the issues. Basically he's trying to woo the female vote, and make his ticket look as progressive and forward thinking as the democratic ticket.

I won't comment on her politics, but I will say that she has no significant political experience and has been a governor for only a very short time.

One last thing: If I were voting Republican, I would be looking hard at the fact the McCain is old as the hills, and this woman stands a pretty darn good chance of becoming president. Is she really someone we would want in the office?

kenzie · Chanel

I'll agree with insulting. Putting a woman on the ticket does not pacify all of us voters who were pulling for Hillary.

And I also agree that a President who's 72 might be vacating the Oval Office before his term is up and I don't want that woman as President. I would love to see a woman president, but not just any woman. Having a vagina doesn't earn my vote.

Tati · Chanel

kenzie wrote:

Having a vagina doesn't earn my vote.

ILoveChoo · Hermes

gingembre1 wrote:

I'm going with a fourth option: Insulting. I feel like he is condescending to women by basically saying "You'll vote for me just because I have a female running mate." He's basically saying that we're not smart enough to pick a candidate based on the issues. Basically he's trying to woo the female vote, and make his ticket look as progressive and forward thinking as the democratic ticket.

At the same time though, by him nominating a woman it makes his tickt just as historic as Obama's. So Hillary aside, people just looking to make history won't all just flock to Obama now. As lame as it is, people actually do vote based on things like that. I almost feel like he had to nominate a woman just to stay in the game. (Personally my fingers were crossed for Snowe though)

gingembre1 · Kate Spade

But that's what I find so insulting - he chooses a woman just to be historic? And to cater to the so-called "soccer mom" vote. Unfortunately I realize that people will be dumb enough to actually vote based on these kinds of things.

pollyjean23 · Marc Jacobs

The word, "transparent," comes to mind. Out of the existing choices, I'm going with insulting (but kind of humorous).

tri_sarah_tops · Marc Jacobs

How about bizzare? I really don't get it. If he wanted a woman, there are plenty more qualified. Seriously, with all the stuff we're finding out now, I find it hard to believe that she was even vetted. First she was on city council, then elected mayor of a town of about 9,000, and left them with a huge debt when she was elected governor, which, by the way, was less than two years ago. Now she's got this ethics investigation, and the majority of the GOP can't even speak for her, saying that they've never met her.

Personally, I really don't think this is smart. Hard core GOPers are gonna stick to party lines no matter what, but I think this is really going to hurt him with people who were on the fence. Like everyone has said, McCain is not a young man. He has not had the best health and his father died when he was 70. There is absolutely no way Palin is qualified to be president.

I'm actually pretty angry. I think it's horrible to put politics over the welfare of your country, which is essentially what he did. If he's elected (let's hope not), and something happens to him, there is no way she could handle the presidency. It was horribly selfish and and reckless.

Edit: Wanted to add one more thing.
Disclaimer: This is going to sound sexist, but I swear it's not. I would say the same thing about a man.
She has five kids and a 4 month old baby with special needs (Downs Syndrome). That makes for some pretty big family obligations, and I can't even imagine how stressful it would be to deal with that, plus all the heavy campaigning, and then all the travel if the ticket is elected. She's untested in this capacity, and although I can't make a testament to how she'd react, I know I certainly wouldn't put someone in that position unless I absolutely knew they could handle it. And I seriously doubt that McCain can have that much faith in her character and strength, given her incredibly short political career.

-- Edited by tri_sarah_tops at 21:29, 2008-08-29

NCshopper · Hermes

I'm going with insulting. This is so clearly a strategic move on his part just to get him elected with no real thought to how this would actually play out if she were indeed VP.

TST--I totally agree with you. It is hard to say without sounding sexist, but I don't really know how a person juggles the vice-presidency with 5 kids, one of which has Downs Syndrome. And it's not exactly like Alaska is geographically close to DC. So something's gonna have to give there.

I think this all clearly shows that McCain's camp is on the defensive. He's just trying to find a way to stay competitive at this point. If he felt he had the upper hand in any way, he'd have picked someone with stronger credentials, even if it were a man.

Oh, and apparently, according to my mom, they've met only once in person and have spoken twice over the phone. I'm trying to find a source for that, but I haven't been able to yet.

relrel · Marc Jacobs

tri_sarah_tops wrote:
I'm actually pretty angry. I think it's horrible to put politics over the welfare of your country, which is essentially what he did. If he's elected (let's hope not), and something happens to him, there is no way she could handle the presidency. It was horribly selfish and and reckless.

I totally hadn't thought of it that way, but you completely right. And it's really scary actually. McCain and Obama have been pretty well evenly matched for a while now- both running at about 45%. Which is also really interesting, not a lot of undecided. Choosing Palin as his running mate, McCain really showed what was more important: winning and being president over leading this country onto a better path.

I was watching some news thing the other day and it showed a clip of McCain walking down the stairs off of a jet, and the man looked OLD. His health is a real issue, no matter who is running mate is.

There is a small part of me that thinks that he'll change his mind by next week. I mean, can anybody in the GOP actually sit and listen to all this "What the hell? Palin?" talk and think that she is a good choice and they should stick with her. I mean, can he change his mind? Is that even allowed?

relrel · Marc Jacobs

NCshopper wrote:
Oh, and apparently, according to my mom, they've met only once in person and have spoken twice over the phone. I'm trying to find a source for that, but I haven't been able to yet.

I don't know about the phone calls, but McCain only first met Palin the night before today's annoucement, last night. He was quoted as saying that he wanted to meet her at least once to make sure he felt comfortable with her as his choice.

NCshopper · Hermes

Here's a CNN article that says that they did indeed meet only once:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/29/how-mccain-chose-palin/

I'm still kind of flabbergasted over that fact. Sheesh...

I'm with you, Relrel--part of me wonders if he can take it back. But then he'd be a "flip-flopper" so that's probably not what will happen.

-- Edited by NCshopper at 21:56, 2008-08-29

twinkle_star · Kenneth Cole

I agree that this is insulting. Does he think that Hillary supporters merely supported Hillary because she's a woman? There's such a fine line between Obama and Hillary's platforms, if Hillary supporters who don't support Obama are savvy enough to make that distinction aren't they savvy enough to NOT vote for a woman whose views are diametrically opposed to hers?

On a side note, I wonder if people would even be talking about familial obligations if she was a man? In the first article I read about her they mentioned her kids within the first two sentences; for most male candidates kids are a side note at best. Does anyone wonder how Obama will be a father to his kids if he's elected?

I can't wait for the debates. I hope he's dug is own grave with this pick.

Suasoria · Chanel

There's something very weird and strange about this. Remember Harriet Miers, the tragically underqualified supreme court nominee? The right went apesh*t. I fist thought this is the same - so pathetic, it won't be tolerated by the party. However, unlike Miers, conservatives seem to feel it's an inspired choice. (I wonder where the above writer got the impression she's fought big oil? She's all for drilling in Alaska.)

I think her evangelical cred is just as strategic and focus-group tested as her gender. I doubt evangelicals feel insulted by the assumption that they'll vote for another evangelical even though he/she lacks experience.

But I see danger ahead for American politics. I think Biden was also focus-group approved in the sense that he adds "older, whiter, and more experienced" to the Democratic ticket. This "typecasting" is going to produce tickets of lesser and lesser quality as the parties keep on pandering until we get beauty queens and boy toys.

I do thank McCain for adding a word to the lexicon: GILF. (Governor I'd Like to F---!)

ILoveChoo · Hermes

Again, not getting into issues (I think most of you know where I stand on those anyway) but just thinking about this strategically and kind of playing the devil's advocate;

-I don't understand the "not qualified" comments. Obama is hardly more qualified than she is. She has almost 2 years of experience as Governor. That is 2 more years of executive experience than any of the other 3 people running. Lets not forget that this is an executive position.

-This goes a great way n helping McCain inoculate himself against the "more of the same" arguments. How can the Dems say he's more of the same, when Obama went and picked probably the safest guy he could think of to run with?

-She's actually really close to McCain in terms of issues. Its not like he picked someone that he doesn't agree with at all.

-I know you were trying not to sound sexist with the family comments, but really?? Would you think the same if it was a man in that position? I seriously doubt it. Her husband can take on the "mother" role. I find those comments highly offensive. You do it the same as you would in any family where the woman has a high level position. And they will most likely move to DC...there's nothing that says they have to stay in Alaska.

-I think that the people who are offended by him picking a woman most likely wouldn't have voted for him anyway. I doubt it hurts him in that respect.

Suasora: I think the oil thing is because eve though she's for drilling, she taxed the hell out of those companies.

That all being said, I still think there were much smarter picks. If he wanted to go with a woman, I think Sen. Snowe would have been an awesome choice.... I thought the rumors of Lieberman were also very smart. But I also think people would find a problem with anyone he picked.

Hermes

I don't know what to think. I am shocked that he picked someone with so little experience and in the midst of an ethics investigation.

In my opinion, the mortality rate of McCain and Obama are pretty much equal. McCain is old, but Obama is a walking assassination target. That's why Colin Powell wouldn't run for president -- the assassination risk was too high and he didn't want to do that to his family. However, someone has got to break these glass ceilings, and Obama is brave in doing that.

At this moment, I would feel more comfortable with Biden taking over the presidency than Palin.

One thing I know for sure, is that we will either have a black man or a woman in the white house soon...

tri_sarah_tops · Marc Jacobs

ILoveChoo wrote:
-I know you were trying not to sound sexist with the family comments, but really?? Would you think the same if it was a man in that position? I seriously doubt it. Her husband can take on the "mother" role. I find those comments highly offensive. You do it the same as you would in any family where the woman has a high level position. And they will most likely move to DC...there's nothing that says they have to stay in Alaska.

Sorry to have offended you, but I promise, I would have said the same thing about a man. I certainly don't mean that she's not capable of the job because of her family, and it is definitely inspiring to see mothers in leadership positions, but I would wonder about the stress of having an infant, and four other children, and managing the vice presidency, regardless of gender and the presence of the other parent.

My husband and I both work, and neither one of us have especially demanding jobs, and it's still hard to balance work/life/everything else with only one child. I know plenty of people, men and women, who have young children and have given up high level jobs just because it put too much stress on their family. That's all I meant by my comment.

If she can handle it, and the rest of her family can handle it, good for them. I just wouldn't want to/couldn't do it, and I wouldn't want my husband to do it either. I don't mean it as sexist, it's just my views on work and family based on my experience and situations I've seen other face.

No time right now to comment on your other points, but in short, based on what I know of her, she terrifies me. Conservatives seem happy with her, so maybe this isn't so bad for them, but she is way, way, way, too far right for me, Obama is inexperienced, and we all know that. But his presidency would be our choice, and depsite that inexperience I'm willing to take a chance on him. I know that most people who vote for McCain would probably vote for her at the top of the ticket, but I really hate the thought of her possibly becoming president by default. That's sooo scary.

Kelly · Hermes

I feel like there is not a whole lot new I can say. I think the choice was insulting, transparent, and ridiculous considering that she basically came out of nowhere and if McCain is elected, she is just a heartbeat away from actually being the president. I think it's silly of him to trust an entire country, for which he's trying to become the main protector, to someone he'd never met before.

Personally, looking at what little I have had time to read since the announcement, she's not the kind of person I want to be leading my country.

ILoveChoo wrote:
-I don't understand the "not qualified" comments. Obama is hardly more qualified than she is. She has almost 2 years of experience as Governor. That is 2 more years of executive experience than any of the other 3 people running. Lets not forget that this is an executive position.

Well, outside of my own views on who is qualified or not, I think it's pretty hypocritical of McCain to pick her. True, Obama does not have a lot of experience on his resume. But I don't think Obama is trying to run on his past; he's trying to run on the amount of promise he has. And, of course, everyone has a different view about whether that's enough, or intelligent, etc. But McCain has repeatedly pointed out Obama's lack of experience as a weakness, and now he's putting someone with near-comparable experience in a position that is just a heartbeat away from being president. That's what really makes me mad - that he's basically abandoning so much of what he said just because now it's politically convenient for him to have her as his VP.

-- Edited by ttara123 at 12:13, 2008-08-30