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blubirde


Chanel

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RE: this should be a good discussion starter...
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gingembre1 wrote:


2. People say they're all for a melting pot, blah blah blah. But they don't seem to have any idea what immigrating to the United States legally entails - the huge COSTS, the YEARS of waiting, the lottery system, etc. Unless you are already well off, well educated, or extremely well-connected, or from a "desireable" country, your chances of immigrating to the US are slim to none. So are all of these poor, uneducated people to be doomed to poverty in their own countries? Or should they be allowed to seek a better life in the US? Marginalizing them and forcing them to live on the fringes of our society because they are illegal immigrants is not the way to prevent higher crime rates, or encourage these people to become productive citizens. People forget that these illegal immigrants are seeking a better life - but most of the time lack the means to do so "legally." I don't mind that my tax dollars are going to support that.

I'm sooo glad you brought up this point. I agree with you 100%. I can't understand the hate for non-residents. Didn't we all, at some point or another, immigrate to this country for some reason or another? I understand we can't have open borders and have the world move in down the street but come on - let the hypocrisy go.

I live in Texas and no one can say I don't know what it's like to have an alien problem. I know. I also know exactly what kind of jobs non-residents take and I love the whole "taking jobs from Americans" arguers. I want every person who has ever said that to come stand on a hot highway and pour asphalt; to come scrub the toilets at my office building; to hitch a ride to a day labor site and hope and pray you'll get chosen so you can some money that day; etc., etc., etc.

Further, we are all better off if we have an educated, literate, healthy population. We all suffer when our workforce and society as a whole is stupid and sick. So those people who don't like tax dollars going to help those less fortunate, legal or not, can take their extra dollars each month, buy another tv for their house, and watch as the crime rate goes up, infectious diseases spread rapidly, and their beautiful neighborhood gets covered by those nasty, dirty homeless people. (that's sarcasm)

I'm sorry for the ranting but I feel really strongly about this subject. In one of my law school classes we lingered for awhile on federal crimes and how being an undocumented worker makes your "crime" go up one level (so to speak). To my dismay, I was the only person in the class arguing that being "undocumented" should not be a crime. I'm happy to see someone else feels similarly.

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Starstuff


Kenneth Cole

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To chime in for a moment about the "cost" of illegal aliens in our country. I have no doubt that there is an impact, and probably a negative one all told. However, in certain parts of the county, such as California and NYC, illegal, undocumented immigrants play a vital part in the economy. Fruit couldn't be picked in CA in the vast amounts that it needs to without the help of immigrant laborers. NYC restaurants couldn't get their tables bused or their dishes washed without help from immigrants. There just aren't enough ppl to get the job done. So, immigrants work for peanuts, get paid cash, send the majority of their earnings back to their home country, and yes, they do use systems (such as public school, police and fire dept. and the emergency room) that are paid for by tax dollars. But, their contributions help keep the economy going. Think of how much fruit would cost if a living wage were paid to the ppl who picked it. Consider the cost of the salary passed along to the consumer. Fruit would be so expensive. Consider how much restaurants would have to raise their prices to cover the cost of the salary of the workers in the kitchen. There would be a lot of ripples.

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Farrah


Marc Jacobs

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Starstuff wrote:

To chime in for a moment about the "cost" of illegal aliens in our country. I have no doubt that there is an impact, and probably a negative one all told. However, in certain parts of the county, such as California and NYC, illegal, undocumented immigrants play a vital part in the economy. Fruit couldn't be picked in CA in the vast amounts that it needs to without the help of immigrant laborers. NYC restaurants couldn't get their tables bused or their dishes washed without help from immigrants. There just aren't enough ppl to get the job done. So, immigrants work for peanuts, get paid cash, send the majority of their earnings back to their home country, and yes, they do use systems (such as public school, police and fire dept. and the emergency room) that are paid for by tax dollars. But, their contributions help keep the economy going. Think of how much fruit would cost if a living wage were paid to the ppl who picked it. Consider the cost of the salary passed along to the consumer. Fruit would be so expensive. Consider how much restaurants would have to raise their prices to cover the cost of the salary of the workers in the kitchen. There would be a lot of ripples.



I am all for guest worker programs for those hard working people that want to work.  I find it totally insane that American citizens are allowed to collect welfare because they are too lazy to take the jobs that the immigrants are willing to do though.  It is the people that do not work and live on welfare that bother me.  Another issue with a lot of illegal immigrants that we see in Chicago is that there are hard working people that come here and REALLY do work; their kids are another story though.  Many of the street gangs in Chicago are populated with the kids of these people that do not want to make their way like their parents do: they want it the easy way.  Hence, they join gangs and get involved in criminal enterprises. 



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