STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

Elle · Hermes

RE: Ashlee Simpson

mizzle · BCBG

just out of curiousity, what do you guys think of avril lavigne?

also... so am i only allowed to wear pink fryes if i'm about to go round up some cattle? can i wear a juicy sweatsuit if i'm not an athlete? and only pilots can wear aviators, right?

doveanunu · Dooney & Bourke

quote:
Originally posted by: mizzle
"just out of curiousity, what do you guys think of avril lavigne? also... so am i only allowed to wear pink fryes if i'm about to go round up some cattle? can i wear a juicy sweatsuit if i'm not an athlete? and only pilots can wear aviators, right?"

I think avril has a good voice

RyanJ · Coach

quote:
Originally posted by: mizzle
"just out of curiousity, what do you guys think of avril lavigne?

Ugh... I can't stand her. She another one of the 'punk' singers I can't stand. I just get pissed off thinking about her. She has a good voice and she can definaltey sing, but she drives me crazy. My boyfriend gets so annoyed with me because I will just go off on the 30 min. long tangents about her.

bumblebee · Dooney & Bourke

hee--now i see what mia meant. point taken, mizzle.

it bugs me that ashlee simpson seems to be appropriating the look of punk without knowing anything about what it means, and i think it mainly bugs me because she seems to be doing it because she is desperate to be the opposite of her older sister. it looks like an arbitrary choice--obviously i don't know because i don't know her, but that's how it looks to me.

re: avril lavigne, i don't really feel one way or the other about her. i think she is actually talented and can sing, so that counts for a lot. she's kind of a faux-punk also, but i know plenty of girls like that and she seems to be into the look because she actually likes it, so that seems good enough to me.

honey · Gucci

i don't care for avril either, but i do like some of her songs and i think she's a good example of the right way to manufacture music, since she has some good pop songs.

the authenticity issue intrigues me and i have strong opinions on it (i'm a big hip hop fan and the question of authenticity always comes up) for me it's not about the ashlee's and avril's appropriating elements of punk culture. after all in order for more underground aspects of our culture to continue on, the next generation has to become interested in them. what irks me is that the appropriation is devoid of understanding of the culture and it's history which is akin to lack of respect...and that bothers me. also i get annoyed b/c imo it doesn't seem like either avril or ashlee wanted to be "punk" it's just an image someone created for them and they decided to run with it.

mizzle · BCBG

quote:
Originally posted by: bumblebee
"hee--now i see what mia meant. point taken, mizzle. it bugs me that ashlee simpson seems to be appropriating the look of punk without knowing anything about what it means, and i think it mainly bugs me because she seems to be doing it because she is desperate to be the opposite of her older sister. it looks like an arbitrary choice--obviously i don't know because i don't know her, but that's how it looks to me. re: avril lavigne, i don't really feel one way or the other about her. i think she is actually talented and can sing, so that counts for a lot. she's kind of a faux-punk also, but i know plenty of girls like that and she seems to be into the look because she actually likes it, so that seems good enough to me. "

well, i appreciate you not getting mad at me bumblebee--i just think the "kids today are all punk fakers!!" knee-jerk reaction, often by people who were never punks, is inaccurate. punk for ashlee is 75% fashion, 10% wanting to be different from her sister (is that so wrong??), and 15% just rebelling from the media and haters who think she doesn't get it. (wait... 75+10+15=phew!) what do you consider real punk? what do you consider faux-punk? and where do you draw that line? if someone wasn't born in the gutter, can they never be punk?

PS, i think the "A" on her drumkit was tongue in cheek--A is for Ashlee AND to piss off the folks who think she's not real punk. do you really think that punk bands who put "A" on their drum kits wanted anarchy? do punks who wear nazi symbols want us to go back to how it was in WW2? punk = rebellion and youth, and that's what ashlee's doing.

avril... i adore her. ashlee, eh. but i still will defend ashlee because she has a few good songs, and music is meant to be fun and enjoyable... not something for us to get SO ANGRY about because she had a couple lame performances and has an evil dad who is always peeking around the curtain while ashlee or jessica writhe and gyrate, probably totally getting off on it.

doveanunu · Dooney & Bourke

quote:
Originally posted by: honey
"i don't care for avril either, but i do like some of her songs and i think she's a good example of the right way to manufacture music, since she has some good pop songs. the authenticity issue intrigues me and i have strong opinions on it (i'm a big hip hop fan and the question of authenticity always comes up) for me it's not about the ashlee's and avril's appropriating elements of punk culture. after all in order for more underground aspects of our culture to continue on, the next generation has to become interested in them. what irks me is that the appropriation is devoid of understanding of the culture and it's history which is akin to lack of respect...and that bothers me. also i get annoyed b/c imo it doesn't seem like either avril or ashlee wanted to be "punk" it's just an image someone created for them and they decided to run with it. "

yes but in ashlee's first music video, she wore a shirt that said "punk" on it. That is clearly false advertising damn it!

RyanJ · Coach

Just because you put on a studded belt, wear vans and cut your Dickies pants off- that does not make you punk. Just as a girl who wears Burberry and dresses her dog in cute sweaters doesn’t mean she can’t be punk. Punk is not fashion style it is how you think. The idea of punk is doing what you want. Not doing something because your parents or society tell you to. You live how you want and do what makes you happy. If you want to wear ‘punk’ clothes because you like how it looks than that is great, but don’t claim to be punk just because you shop at Hot Topic.

mizzle · BCBG

quote:
Originally posted by: honey
"i don't care for avril either, but i do like some of her songs and i think she's a good example of the right way to manufacture music, since she has some good pop songs. the authenticity issue intrigues me and i have strong opinions on it (i'm a big hip hop fan and the question of authenticity always comes up) for me it's not about the ashlee's and avril's appropriating elements of punk culture. after all in order for more underground aspects of our culture to continue on, the next generation has to become interested in them. what irks me is that the appropriation is devoid of understanding of the culture and it's history which is akin to lack of respect...and that bothers me. also i get annoyed b/c imo it doesn't seem like either avril or ashlee wanted to be "punk" it's just an image someone created for them and they decided to run with it. "

honey, on the authenticity issue, what about punk do you feel that ashlee and avril don't respect, and appropriate without an understanding? also, do you at all get the sense that, especially for ashlee, really all they mean by punk is rebellion, anger, and giving the finger to people who think they're not authentic? isn't that punk too? who is and isn't manufactured is another story... if it's produced by a label, it's manufactured and marketed and spun, and that applies to more than just teen pop.

honey · Gucci

mizzle: my general sense of things (and i'm so not punk, so i don't have the definitive answer) is that ashlee & avril don't understand the history of punk meaning that if quizzed they wouldn't know anything about certain artists like the ramones, the sex pistols, etc (and please forgive my ignorance to this -- or maybe my ignorance makes me not qualified to answer, but i'm trying to relate ashlee & punk to how i feel about certain hip hop artists) that are considered the "founders" of punk. for avril specifically i keep thinking of incident where she mispronounced david bowie's name and was then kind of like whatever. as far as punk just being a desire to rebel against the mainstream, i totally respect that. but i guess for me, it seems like neither of them ever really had a desire to rebel for the sake of rebellion. they kind of just wanted to have a career and creating a "punk" image in the broad sense was a means to an end. so in that respect i also think that it's inauthentic and kind of sucky.

i agree with you that a lot of music is manufactured i just am bothered by the fact that we can't be truthful about it. i guess i'm kind of like why is it so bad if someone went to pop star training camp if it means they make good music. hmmm, now i feel like i might have contradicted myself.

RyanJ · Coach

quote:
Originally posted by: mizzle
"if it's produced by a label, it's manufactured and marketed and spun, and that applies to more than just teen pop."

I agree with you 100% on that. The Sex Pistols which I think many people consider to be the very definition of punk and they were manufactured. A record company put them together just like the Spice Girls, but I still consider them punk. The Sex Pistols not the Spice Girls

I am in heaven a board where I can talk fashion and punk music

-- Edited by RyanJ at 18:04, 2005-01-06

Karina · Chanel

i dont like them or their fabricated punk style.

halleybird · Hermes

Nquote:
Originally posted by: RyanJ
" Just because you put on a studded belt, wear vans and cut your Dickies pants off- that does not make you punk. Just as a girl who wears Burberry and dresses her dog in cute sweaters doesn’t mean she can’t be punk. Punk is not fashion style it is how you think. The idea of punk is doing what you want. Not doing something because your parents or society tell you to. You live how you want and do what makes you happy. If you want to wear ‘punk’ clothes because you like how it looks than that is great, but don’t claim to be punk just because you shop at Hot Topic."

I agree. And being a cash cow for your greedy parents is so not punk!

oh, and re: Joe Simpson -- he has also made comments about Jessica's breasts several times, and he says she "belonged" to him until she married Nick.

-- Edited by halleybird at 17:39, 2005-01-06

cc · Marc Jacobs

eh, i'd take ashlee over jessica anyday. i can't stand jessica's schmaltz and just the sight of her face makes me want to barf. in general, i don't really care if a singer can sing well or not - lots of the bands i listen to have either crappy singers or no singer or the vocals are mixed so low on the recording that it just blends in. i guess in ashlee's case she isn't a musician (although she is given writing credit on almost every song on her album) so she doesn't have much (or anything) going for her talent-wise but i think the songs on her album are pretty good. not something i would actively listen to, but if i were forced to listen to mainstream radio, i would probably be happy if they played her stuff a lot instead of j.lo or some other crap.

i really don't like avril. i get confused because she dresses punk, but a lot of her songs sound like regular ol sappy ballads to me. i think the fact that ashlee doesn't have a good voice actually works in her favor in terms of having a punk image, since most singers in punk bands can't sing to save their lives.

RyanJ · Coach

quote:
Originally posted by: halleybird
" re: Joe Simpson -- he has also made comments about Jessica's breasts several times, and he says she "belonged" to him until she married Nick.

AHHHHH That is even worse. The just me me feel icky and uncomfy.

bumblebee · Dooney & Bourke

i get what you are saying, mizzle--except for the part about ashlee thumbing her nose at the media--i think she is trying to attract their attention rather than tell them to screw off.

edited/i feel weird having so much personal info up. sorry. that's not very punk of me.

-- Edited by bumblebee at 18:52, 2005-01-06

jen · Kate Spade

My whole thing with Avril is this: Avril is the anti-britney, 'so cool, oh, I'm not pop and prissy like that kind of attitude. I'm real. I'm not manufacuted like that. ' Well, yes you are Avril. You are just an image just like Britnay. Just a different image. Britney you are the pop pakage. Avril you are the punk package. You're both the same, just different ways of making money.

Oh, and to all the goth kids that make fun of me for being a prep and dressing like everyone else and not being different, look at all your friends that are dressed in the same black flishnets, t-shirts, and piercings as you and tell me you're different. Just because you and I or Britney and Avril are different does not mean YOUR different. Avril is such a poser it makes me sick. Look at pictures of her before her recors deal. She was not 'punk' now she is-to sell records!

mizzle · BCBG

cc--i'll give you that complicated, don't tell me, and happy ending are mid-tempo, but come on, what about sk8ter boi!!

dixiegirl · BCBG

It was painful watching that halftime show. You could just tell the obvious difference in talent between Kelly Clarkson (who went first) & then Ashlee. So embarrassing. I would never, ever pay a dime to see her live.

However, I love her cd & will still listen to it at the gym & in the car. It's cute & upbeat, i guess i don't really care if she can sing live.

-- Edited by dixiegirl at 19:42, 2005-01-06