STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

littlebean · Kate Spade

God/faith

dangergirl · Kate Spade

i am a christian, and go to a baptist church at home, and an anglican church at uni

squishy · Coach

NCshopper wrote:
Didn't we all take an online religion quiz on here sometime last year? I remember a post about it and it was super interesting. My beliefs actually corresponded most with Orthodox Judaism. Here's the quiz if anyone wants to re-take it or try it for the first time. I thought it was fascinating: http://www.beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html

this was an interesting quiz to take (belief-o-matic? lol). my results:
1. unitarian universalism
2. secular humanism
3. theravada buddhism
4. neo-pagan
5. liberal quakers

Drew · Gucci

I've never heard of this before, but it seems to fit my freewheeling feelings about spirituality and religion. I guess I would officially be considered a Unitarian Universalist, but I would be willing to bet that I along with a lot of others in this category would prefer to do without the label. ;)

More on Unitarian Universalists

Unitarian Universalism SectionSpirituality SectionRelated LinksUnitarian Universalist Message Boards

	Belief in Deity Very diverse beliefs--Unitarian/Universalists welcome all deity beliefs as well as nontheistic beliefs. Some congregations are formed for those who share a common belief, e.g. Christianity.
	Incarnations Very diverse beliefs, including belief in no incarnations, or that all are the embodiment of God. Some believe Christ is God's Son, or not Son but "Wayshower."
	Origin of Universe and Life Diverse beliefs, but most believe in the Bible as symbolic and that natural processes account for origins.
	After Death Diverse beliefs, but most believe that heaven and hell are not places but are symbolic. Some believe heaven and hell are states of consciousness either in life or continuing after death; some believe in reincarnation; some believe that afterlife is nonexistent or not known or not important, as actions in life are all that matter.
	Why Evil? Most do not believe that humanity inherited original sin from Adam and Eve or that Satan actually exists. Most believe that God is good and made people inherently good but also with free will and an imperfect nature that leads some to immoral behavior. Diverse beliefs. Some believe wrong is committed when people distance themselves from God. Some believe in karma, that what goes around comes around. Some believe wrongdoing is a matter of human nature, psychology, sociology, etc.
	Salvation Some believe in salvation through faith in God and Jesus Christ, along with doing good works and doing no harm to others. Many believe all will be saved, as God is good and forgiving. Some believe in reincarnation and the necessity to eliminate personal greed or to learn all of lifes lessons before achieving enlightenment or salvation. For some, the concepts of salvation or enlightenment are irrelevant or disbelieved.
	Undeserving Suffering Diverse beliefs. Most Unitarians do not believe that Satan causes suffering. Some believe suffering is part of Gods plan, will, or design, even if we dont immediately understand it. Some dont believe in any spiritual reasons for suffering, and most take a humanistic approach to helping those in need.
	Contemporary Issues The Unitarian Universalist Associations stance is to protect the personal right to choose abortion. Other contemporary views include working for equality for homosexuals, gender equality, a secular approach to divorce and remarriage, working to end poverty, promoting peace and nonviolence, and environmental protection.

boobaby · Kate Spade

According to belief-o-matic, I'm a secular humanist.

Bastet · Kate Spade

I'm Episcopalian, but currently I feel like I'm almost a "sealth Christian." I feel like my religion has been hijacked by people who spew hate, intolerance, and espouse war, and it makes me sad. When I tell people I'm Christian, they assume that I'm a pro-war, intolerant person who thinks that morality needs to be legislated in Congress and in the Supreme Court. I'm upset that people think they're God's chosen people and use the status they perceive they have to promote hate and intolerance. I wish that moderate Christians were as vocal because I feel like so many people have lost the message.

Kitty · Hermes

According to that test I'm 100% Secular Humanist:

Belief in Deity
Not considered important. Most Humanists are atheists or agnostics.

Incarnations
Same as above

After Death
An afterlife or spiritual existence after death is not recognized.

Why Evil?
No concept of evil. Reasons for wrongdoing are explored through scientific methods, e.g. through study of sociology, psychology, criminology.

Salvation
No concept of afterlife or spiritual liberation or salvation. Realizing ones personal potential and working for the betterment of humanity through ethical consciousness and social works are considered paramount, but from a naturalistic rather than supernatural standpoint.

Undeserved Suffering
No spiritual reasons but rather a matter of human vulnerability to misfortune, illness, and victimization.

Contemporary Issues
The American Humanist Association endorses elective abortion. Other contemporary views include working for equality for homosexuals, gender equality, a secular approach to divorce and remarriage, working to end poverty, promoting peace and nonviolence, and environmental protection.

alagirl · Kenneth Cole

I was raised in the United Methodist church and DH and I are regular attendees and members in our church.

sephorablue · Marc Jacobs

squishy wrote:

i waver between agnostic and apathetic.

OMG squishy, too hilarious. I have to say I am atheist rather than agnostic... the way I feel is, I really don't think there's a god, but I'm perfectly comfortable admitting that obviously I don't know for sure, and never will.

ETA: Kitty, I am 100% secular humanist as well! I think that description from the web site aligns very well with my beliefs.

-- Edited by sephorablue at 16:54, 2007-05-28

laken1 · Hermes

I find this discussion fascinating.

I grew up Catholic but when I got old enough to decide on my own, I attended various churches, mainly with the guys I dated, and ended up in the Baptist church. Now I don't go to church at all & decidedly don't know what I believe. If forced to answer I'd say Christian, but I just don't know anymore. In case anyone cares, here are my issues with various organized religion:
I stopped being Catholic due to:
* I don't get why if they assume God is all knowing & all powerful that you pray to saints & Mary. Either he is or he isn't & I don't get why he would need help - I'd prefer to go to the source
* Birth control - you can't tell me that it's better to have 18 kids than to take the pill. And the belief that "God" give you kids - well, yeah, but science is in there & if you do it without birth control you'll most likely get pregnant. duh.
* The whole money issue - The Vatican is the most wealthy "country" on the planet, share the wealth, that's all I'm saying. The pope wears Prada. Come on now!
ETA - I thought of one more thing - the de-emphasis on the bible as a whole. I hate that the church dictates the "reading" for that day & they are always the same ones - I think I'm smart enough to read some on my own but that is not encouraged. It might have been the 10 churches that I attended up I somehow doubt it. If you claim to believe in the bible should you encourage your followers to read it in full? I went to Catholic school for 9 years & had never read the bible even once other than certain gospels & such. That just seemed odd after going to the Baptist church where they rely so heavily on the bible as a whole & it made me wonder why Catholics didn't as well. (don't even get me started on the bible as a whole & who decides what goes in who's bible & what is true & what isn't.)

Baptist:
* I was living with my boyfriend / future ex husband & we were approached about "living in sin" - they basically told us to get married or leave the church. I'm not blaming them for marrying the wrong guy, but the rush to do so was definitely a direct link to the church which was my only social acceptance in a new city at the time. At the time it seemed the right thing to do, in hind sight I would have told them to bite me.

Issues with hypocrisy -
* My ex husband was completely a bible thumper or smoking pot/taking pain pills. I have a hard time not associating organized religion as a similar coping mechanism & while I know that is an extreme generalization, I just can't get over it.
* I've never been to a church that accepted other faiths. Everyone thinks they are the only ones who are right which pushes me to believe they are all wrong.
* Practice what you preach. I realize everyone is human, but stop judging me as you sin. Seriously.

I also resent the role of women in most organized religion - they aren't viewed as "good enough" or equal to be the ministers. That really irks me.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

--

ETA - that quiz has me as a liberal quaker or a Unitarian, which I"ve actually considered. (considered the unitarian, not quaker)

-- Edited by laken1 at 12:31, 2007-05-29

-- Edited by laken1 at 12:46, 2007-05-29

Farrah · Marc Jacobs

This is an interesting topic. I love reading about all of your personal beliefs and reasoning behind them. I am a Roman Catholic. I went to Catholic school until the 9th grade, church, practiced the sacraments, the whole 9 yards. Additionally, my BF is Catholic and that was very important to me in finding a mate. I believe in my religion whole heartedly, as my faith and prayer has really helped me through some very tough times in my life. Now, I will admit that I hold beliefs that the Catholic church does not agree with: abortion - ok, homosexuality - fine by me, divorce - if you have to, it is your life. I also only attend church about 5 times a year. I took the beliefnet quiz too and I was happy to say that I am 100% Roman Catholic; I was also 100% Eastern Orthodox. Here are my top ten:
1. Eastern Orthodox (100%)
2. Roman Catholic (100%)
3. Orthodox Quaker (91%)
4. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (88%)
5. Reform Judaism (87%)
6. Orthodox Judaism (86%)
7. Sikhism (86%)
8. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (83%)
9. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (83%)
10. Islam (74%)

jah · Dooney & Bourke

I was born and raised Catholic and have a "brother" that is a Catholic priest. My faith has helped me through some very difficult times. I do not want to start a debate or an argument, but I would like to clarify that Catholics don't "pray to Mary" as you would "pray to God". I hear this all the time, so for clarification purposes, we pray to ask Mary to intercede on our behalf. This is similar to asking someone to pray for you if you are sick in the hospital.

Some specific Catholic teaching:

Catholics do not pray to Mary as if she were God. Prayer to Mary is praise to God for the wonderful things he has done in and through one of his creatures (Hail Mary) and intercession (second half of the Hail Mary).

Okay, that is the end of my religious instruction for today. I hope I did not offend anyone, as that was not my intent, I only wanted to clarify an aspect of my religion that is often misunderstood.

Teresa · Kate Spade

lol, thanks jah. i know what you mean!

Drew · Gucci

I'm not debating you or anything, jah, but I think a lot of Christians are praying directly to the saints for help. I misunderstood that despite my advanced age upon induction into the Catholic church, and most everyone I knew would mention about praying to a saint for help, not praying to the saint to have them pray/go to God for them. It is a little confusing, I think still.

jah · Dooney & Bourke

Drew wrote:

I'm not debating you or anything, jah, but I think a lot of Christians are praying directly to the saints for help. I misunderstood that despite my advanced age upon induction into the Catholic church, and most everyone I knew would mention about praying to a saint for help, not praying to the saint to have them pray/go to God for them. It is a little confusing, I think still.

I understand you don't want to debate and actually don't think we are in complete disagreement.  Catholics absolutely ask saints and Mary directly to intercede on our behalf (to pray for us).

The real confusion often comes in regarding the difference between worship and prayer. In my previous post, I indicated Catholics don't "pray to Mary" as we "pray to God". We don't. Prayer to God is worship, prayer to Mary or a Saint is not.  Generally when non-Catholics disagree with prayer to saints and Mary the assertion is that worship belongs only to God. Catholics would agree with this assessment.

Worship can take the form of prayer (Mass, etc.), but prayer is not always worship. When a Catholic asks a Saint or Mary to help us through prayer, we are asking that Saint or Mary to "intercede" on our behalf. In fact, as indicated in my previous post, the second half of the Hail Mary is intercession.  A Catholic may also pray to thank a Saint or Mary for having already interceded on our behalf. The prayer may not go "Mary, please ask God to help us find the strength through this illness". It may go "Mary, please help me find strength through this illness". The implied portion, is that Mary will help by interceding with God through prayer on our behalf.

We believe this is possible, because Catholics believe in the communion of Saints. This makes our asking Mary or Saints to intercede for us essentially similar to asking a friend on earth to pray for us.

Non-worship prayer to Mary and Saints is something Catholics absolutely do. I personally pray to Mary and St. Ann proudly and frequently, because I can use all the help I can get!! smile

I like to consider it "doubling-down".

-- Edited by jah at 16:08, 2007-06-05

luckyclover · Dooney & Bourke

FashionPrincess wrote:

I have a lot of hang ups about denominations and how one thinks the other is wrong, etc, I don't think any of them have the corner market on heaven To me what is important is to believe and accept Jesus as your savior and live your life according to what you find to be Biblically true.

Agreed. I grew up in a pretty religious environment. I had friends whose parents were more strict than mine though...at least we were allowed to watch Smurfs and things like that, unlike them. We were at the church every time it was open (we were there at least 3 days a week which included all day sunday). When we were out of town we still went to the local Methodist/Nazarene church that was near wherever we were. I saw a lot of "religious" people be very judgemental and doing things that weren't very friendly. So I don't go to church anywhere, I haven't in a long time. But I still believe in God, have my values, pray, and am thankful for what I learned there. When my son is older, I'll probably send him with my parents so he can learn things. But he won't be forced to go as much as I was. Once a week is enough, unless he chooses to go more.

twinkle · Coach

Drew wrote:
I'm gonna have to go with Karl Marx on this one: "Religion is the Opiate of the Masses." And also John Lennon: "Imagine no religion too."

I was raised Roman Catholic from nine years on, so maybe my late indoctrination has something to do with my complete disbelief in organized religion. I just don't believe Mary was a virgin, Jesus is the son of God or did any miracles, and I certainly don't like the fact that in order to get into "Heaven" you have to accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior... Seems like an awful exclusive club that a lot of people aren't going to get into simply for lack of exposure. Plus, if we were all based in the middle east, most of us would be hailing the praises of Allah. Religion just doesn't make sense to me. As much good as it has done in community service and promoting "good" (although that can be highly debatable too) morals, it has also been the single largest tool in creating division amongst people. More people have died in "God's name" than in any other way. Seems to cause more harm than good. I think that is why secular societies are far more successful than societies ruled by religious doctrine.

very well said, i totally agree. i was raised jewish (very, very reformed though) and never felt any particular affinity towards organized religion - it's just not for me at all. i respect those that feel it helps them though.

eta: i still consider myself jewish, but only in the cultural sense.

-- Edited by twinkle at 14:13, 2007-06-11

halah · Kenneth Cole

This is a very interesting thread. I was raised by Atheist, my mother's father was a Southern Baptist preacher. It's funny that in her family she ended up the opposite (atheist) and her little sister is a bit of an extreme evangilistic.

My mom was so open with me and I did attend church and sunday school and she really made me feel like it was up to me to learn and decide what worked for me. I even went through my wiccan phase when I was 14 haha.

There are so many misconceptions about Atheist. If anyone is interested (I'll avoid posting the whole essay here) Penn Jillette wrote an amazing short essay on not beleiving in God for NPR.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5015557

rar210 · Marc Jacobs

I'm a Christian and I believe 100% in God. I believe that he created everyone/everything and through him all things are possible. I believe in Heaven and pray each day that I end up there when I leave this earth. I was brought up in a Christian/Baptist Church and my husband was brought up in a Catholic Church. We mostly attend the Catholic Church now.

Suasoria · Chanel

Per the Beliefnet quiz, I'm 100% Theravada Buddhist. Yay. Now I can stop saying "agnostic with atheistic leanings." We can argue some other time about whether or not Buddhism is a religion, I suppose.

I also relate to what D said about "god" versus a collective consciousness. I don't perceive the presence of a higher power affecting my life, but I can at times perceive equivalent powers...another human being, for example, or a place of great natural beauty. So in that sense I see myself as god, and I see you as god too, and her, and him, and that dude over there asleep under the bus bench. So that is a theistic perspective in that sense.

I was raised very Catholic, but that was number 27 on my results list with only a 6% match. My husband was raised very Jewish, but he's no longer observant, and he's spiritual to the extreme. He practices several different meditations including some from the Buddhist tradition, prayer, healing work, and other pursuits. So in our house we have almost a full spectrum and we humor each other.