STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

Elle wrote:

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I personally try to achieve a balance and be realistic with all things, and how I eat is no exception. Is everything I eat an organic/natural/whole food? No. Is everything I eat processed/pumped full of pesticides/artificial? No again. I won't say I can't buy all organic/natural, because I could. I do try to almost always buy whole foods, with the exception for the occasional weakness ... Cinnamon Toast Crunch, anyone ? I've long since made my peace with the 'almost' in 'almost always'.... I put organic milk on that Cinnamon Toast Crunch I mentioned earlier

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ITA. I don't think you're offending anyone, either. I know that America has a real love-hate relationship with food, my own self being no exception. Do I know that hostess cakes are full of crap? Yes. But I still eat them. I don't eat them every day, and I make an effort to cook meals at home as often as possible. But some days, getting a quick meal from McDonald's is worth more to me than taking a long time to make a healthy meal. Just like how I know that exercising is awesome for you, but I don't do it every day. Some days you still find me in front of the couch. I have no rationalization for watching TV instead of running, other than the fact that I want to. I try to keep my portions of crap small - at any restaurant I'm allowed to, I always order the kids meals and sometimes I don't even finish those. If I have to get a meal off of the adult menu, I always see if someone wants to share it or I take it home. I can't even force myself to eat the huge portions I'm served.

I go middle-of-the-road with organic/regular food. I buy all my meat and dairy organic, and about half of my produce. Starches I just buy regular. I know fast food is putting crap into my system, just like I know I could have a snack of organic carrot sticks instead of a cupcake. Just like I know I could save up all of my money, but I still allow myself to buy new clothes and magazines because I just want them. It'd be far smarter and more practical to put everything away in savings, so I don't have any kind of real rationalization for it other than the fact that I just want new clothes and stuff.

 

But I alow myself those treats once in a while. I never try to pretend that cupcakes are good for me. I know they're not. But as long as I use them as a treat or for a special occasion, I'm okay with that. I don't have the time, energy, or willpower to make absolutely everything I eat made from scratch out of exclusively organic/whole foods.

My health is important to me. But so is my pleasure. I like cookies. I bought a box of cookies a few days ago. But I only eat one or two a day, and it was one box of cookies admist two bags of organic veggies and fruit. I can live with myself if this is as bad as I ever get

-- Edited by ttara123 at 15:40, 2007-04-13

I agree with the other posters, I don't think this is offensive...at least I hope your post wouldn't offend anyone.

I do my best to always cook healthy and use as little processed food as possible.  I do a lot of cooking from cookinglight.com and have a ton of weight watcher cookbooks that have really good recipes in them.  I think those WW cookbooks are what really taught me the difference between "play" cooking and "real" cooking.  Before that, I would make a box of hamburger helper, a canned veggie and some instant mashed potatos and call it a meal. I'm on a constant quest to lose weight though so I"m always watching what I'm eating and trying to make sure I get enough fiber, fruits and veggies.  I do have a weakness for fast food (even AFTER I watched "Supersize Me").  I'll get fast food every now and again but I really try not to because I know how disgustingly bad for you it really is.   

Like Elle, I do my best to find a happy medium.  If I'm in control of the meal and prepare it in my home, it's going to be healthy, well balanced, and include little to no processed ingredients.  If I'm not in control of the meal, well I really don't worry about it too much because I know it's one meal out of many healthy ones that I eat.

Now I just need to work on how MUCH I eat....that's where my problem is.

ITA. As far as what Elle said, I find, as a nanny, that most moms buy that shi* for their kids, which totally disgusts me. I have a question...My mom raised me in a fairly healthy family, but never 100% organic and such, how would one go about learning to eat and cook this way? can you recommend books, websites and cookbooks?

squishy wrote:

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what scares me are the portion sizes.  you go to any restaurant, and an entree can easily feed two people.  hell, an appetizer can fill up a stomach.  at east asian mcdonald's joints, there isn't an option of supersizing a meal.  i think you can get a large, but that's basically the same size as the regular meals in the US.


what kills me is that processed/artificial food is so much more affordable and accessible than their whole/organic counterparts.  and that to most people, healthy basically means bland.

*sheepishly puts away soapbox*

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Just two things to add to Squishy's post: First, the portion size is, ITA, what really really pisses me off. It's ridiculous the amount of food that some people eat at one time. What really gets me is that some people just don't know when to stop eating. My BF does this and it drives me nuts. We'll make a meal, whatever it might be, and I'll take my portion. I know how much that I can eat so that's what I put on my plate. Then he feels the need to take rest of what is in the pan/pot. Once it's on his plate, that's it- he's gonna eat it even if he knows he's full and shouldn't. He'll also finish off anything I can't eat so he ends up eating twelve servings at one time. It's really the only reason why he's got a belly.  I don't know if it came out of years of being poor growing up and getting trained by his mom to eat everything because it costs money, I don't know. I've only recently gotten him to slow down eating and listen to what his brain and stomach is trying to tell him. I've even tried to get him to use a smaller plate in hopes that he won't pile everything on top.

Second- the costs of food and the availability of healthy (not even organic, just whole foods and fresh produce) items. Did you guys know that most poorer neighborhoods don't have supermarkets even in larger cities? For instance- Camden, New Jersey DOES NOT have a supermarket. The residents of Camden have only corner stores and the like as thier source of food. They can come into Phillly to shop at a grocery store but that costs money and takes a lot of time. They can also travel out to the surburban area but for the city residents, there is nothing. That's completely unacceptable. I understand the whole idea of organic costing more because the volume they can produce is smaller overall- but it doesn't need to cost as much as it does. Just imagine if the United States government decided to subsidize the organic farming industry as much as they do the corn industry. Life as a lot of people know it would change completely.

I think the biggest thing that I've learned to do is to read the ingredient list. If high fructose corn syrup is anywhere on the list, nope, not ingesting it. If any item in the top half is some wierd word that I don't recognize, nope, not ingesting it.

Moral of the story? Food is an amazing thing and can be enjoyed in a multitude of ways- but processed and manufactured in a huge processing plant is just not the way I want to eat. Second moral of the story? Sometimes food made in a processing plant is what a girl needs after an awful no good very bad day.

I also agree with pretty much everything thats been said. We eat whole foods as much as we can (I love to cook, they're healthier, and they tate better!), but I'm alos not one to resist ice cream, cake, or the occasional overprocessed "low sugar" dessert. I know its not healthy, but whatever. If I enjoy it in moderation it won't kill me.

I think Relrel had some really good points too. The availability of oorganic foods is insane (I live in a pretty rural area and aside from the farmers market- which is open a whole 2 months of the year- its next to impossable to find any sort of selection of organic foods. And those that I can find are insanely priced.) I laso agree that so many people have NO clue about cooking, and yeah in that case the processed stuff probably tastes a million times better. I an't belive there are still people that have no concept of how to use herbs, rubs, and whatnot and think a chicken breast can only be cooked plain.

Portion size really pisses me off too. There are so many peopel (myself included until a few years ago) that have no idea how much is actually appropriate to eat as a meal. Restaurant portions do nothing to help this. I wouldn't normally even consider eatying an entire restaurant portion unless I was absoluelte famished from walking all day long (sometimes part of my job) or something like that.

Disclaimer: I'm a vegetarian moving toward vegan, and I'm forced to explain how and what I eat constantly, sometimes to near strangers. So I have a lot to say on the subject.

When I hear people say "moderation" in this context it's usually a code word for "I eat however I want, whenever I want. My comfort and convenience is more important than anything." (This does not apply to you educated, aware people posting here so far, but I think you know what I'm saying. For most people, it's an excuse to justify things they know they shouldn't do - like binge drinking.)

However, I'm not a radical vegetarian. I say go ahead and eat a piece of lean red meat once a month or once every two months if you want. Or a piece of fish. Or a BLT. Or turkey on Thanksgiving. (I'd stay away from chicken entirely if I were you.)

That's my definition of ommnivorous moderation...six to twelve servings of meat per year, provided the rest of your meals are plant-based, high fiber, low fat.

The same goes for other empty treats. Have a can of soda once a month. Have a sugary cereal or potato chips or a twinkie once a month or once every two months. Make it a family tradition to go to a fast food restaurant every year on New Year's Day (meaning once a year). If you're eating healthfully the rest of the year, this will not hurt you or your conscience.

See how moderate I am?

Here are just a couple of responses to the comments so far.

Frankly, portion control is not an issue if you're eating a plant-based, high fiber, low fat diet. It's only when you put meat and dairy products on your plate that big portions become a problem. A big portion of curried eggplant or lentil soup isn't a problem. A big portion of meat, fat, caffeine, sugar, salt, dairy, egg, processed flour, chemicals, artificial sweeteners, corn syrup, hormones, hydrogenated oils, genetically modified foods, etc...all those will be problems. Big portion of fruits, vegetables, whole grains and legumes? Not a problem.

Yep, availability of food sources is definitely an issue, especially in inner cities. But it's getting better, because consumers are demanding access, and as long as there's a buck to be made, someone will move in to make it. Wal-Mart didn't decide to sell organic produce for PR value - they did it to make money. Urban gardens are also springing up to grow food, partly because of a desire for better nutrition, and partly because environmental activists are taking on these projects inside communities. School lunch programs that serve healthy, fresh foods are getting attention. There can be no mistaking that food and politics go hand in hand, so as a democratic society, we have to keep this pressure on.

Healthy or natural foods aren't expensive. Conventional foods are artificially cheap, thanks to government subsidies. You've already "prepaid" for these foods with your taxes. You're also paying whenever corporate farming pollutes the water supply or the soil or the air. There are numerous points on the supply chain that your taxes have funded - from the oil to the roads to the public health systems that farmworkers have to rely on thanks to lack of living wages and benefits paid by agribusiness. Without all these handouts, conventional produce would not be as cheap as it is. We need a real farm bill that does not give handouts to giant corporations, one that subsidizes natural foods to the extent that we subsidize the production of high-fructose corn syrup.

I disagree that it takes more time to eat well than to eat poorly, but maybe that's because it's how I cook and by now it's second-nature to me. I'm sure it's confusing at first, but I think there are two things to bear in mind: one, you do not need protein in every meal, in fact too much is bad for you, and two, you have to change how you think a meal should look and what it consists of. This second one is often more difficult for people eating the SAD (Standard American Diet), who for their whole lives have looked down at their plates and seen a piece of beige meat, a pile of white starch, and a pile of limp pale green leaves. Vegetarian meals don't look like that, but they're still "meals."

I have only one more note, just for squishy. What you said about the increase in fast food places in Asia is the very definition of globalization: creating and opening worldwide markets for American or multinational corporations. These fast food places may sell products that appeal to local tastes (such as pizza with typical Korean spices) rather than the same American menu, but it's still globalization in an economic sense.

I really could go on about the health implications, the poor job parents are doing feeding their kids, and how awful agribusiness is, but I'll just save it. I support all of you who are doing your part! If I can help, let me know.

needsfashionadvice wrote:

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Suasoria-I feel like what you said was pretty eye opening and helpful, I'm interested in the vegetarian lifestyle (but I just love fish so much!).  Where do you find good vegetarian recipes? 

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There are plenty of vegetarians who eat fish - they're called Pescetarians!  I'm a 'Flexitarian', so I eat fish and dairy, and only eat meat/poultry occasionally (once or twice a month).  There's lots of room on the spectrum between 'carnivore' and 'vegetarian' to play in!

My favorite recipe site is recipezaar.com.  Their sort function allows you to sift for vegetarian recipes (there are 6,200 at last count) and by various other categories.  I also have fun adapting non-veg recipes to veg - it's pretty easy to do!  Maybe we could start a vegetarian thread and share all our tricks with each other .....?

I dated a Pescetarian once, but it was tough since I was raised Catholic. (Ba-dum-bum.) Elle, you beat me by seconds on the new topic.

Squishy, I don't think you have to apologize or feel guilt or feel like you have to defend how you eat.  No one way of eating is right or wrong for everyone or anyone.  IMO you have the right to slap (at least in your head!) anyone who ever says "meat is murder!" "ugh, you're eating THAT?" "how can you stand the smell?" or makes similar comments about anything else.  It's just them trying to validate their own opinion and choices, and showing their ignorance in the process.

I am not a vegetarian, and I have no beef (hehe ) with anyone who makes a conscientious decision about how and what they eat, regardless of what that is.  I eat meat sometimes.  I enjoy it.  I enjoy meat subsitutes (gardenburgers and such).  There are aspects of the meat industry that bother me enough, among other things, to change my habits a bit to something I am more comfortable with.  That decision was based on what I've heard/read/seen and how I processed that info.  But we all hear/read/see different things, and process that info and come to different conclusions about it.  It's all good!

I think the main point of this thread was about whole foods vs. processed foods.  While vegetarianism does have roots there IMO, I think the bigger issue is using items you procure in their original form as a base of your diet, and that can absolutely include meat.  More about being aware of the quality of the ingredients you put in your body, rather than blindly putting something that someone else manufactured in.  I mean, who knows what the meat they put in canned chili (for instance) looks like before it's cooked and added, right?  Or if the carrots they put in canned soup where really on their last leg, etc.  You used the word 'indulge' in your post referring to processed foods.  IMO they're for that - indulging.  And that's why people put a qualifying 'but' with it, to express that they understand while it's fine to indulge, they know it's not the best things to put in the body and that overindulging would have it's consequences.  Enjoy it, just don't abuse it.

But I think we each have our issues, and not every person has the emotional, mental, or physical capacity to have an issue with absolutely everything.  We don't each have to fight every fight.  I can absolutely understand why eating meat would be an issue for some people.  I can absolutely understand why eating meat is not an issue for other people.  Live and let live, make peace with your own choices whatever they are.

Societal norms are constantly in a state of flux.  A particular issue will begin to gain some notice (so here it would be how food is manufactured, how available it is, what we can do to improve the flaws, etc) and more and more people will take notice.  The more people who take notice, the more people start talking.  The more people who start talking, the more people start doing.  I think eventually - hopefully in our lifetimes! - this talking will turn into more doing and eventually every town will have a supermarket.  All produce will be grown organically.  The meat industry will be held to much higher standards for their products.  Products that are imported and exported will be strictly monitored and traded fairly.

As long as you're okay with your own choices, that's all that matters.