STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

ico · Dooney & Bourke

Hi, I am ico and I like to make a mess out of my love life...

Hermes

Deep down, I suspect you knew he wouldn't be supportive of your outing with E, am I right? Did you go out with E, thinking maybe it would give P something to worry about in regard to losing you and get him to think in a more committal fashion?

Well, P can't have his cake and eat it too. P has made it very clear he only views your relationship as temporary. I would ask him if he has changed his mind. It's not fair to tell you that he wants a temporary relationship and have expectations of you that would be applied to a committed relationship or string you along like it could be something more.

I would also ask him why he only wants something temporary. Is it that he knows up-front that you are not someone he could commit to? In my experience, guys that say this don't want a committed relationship with you ever. It's up to you to decide if that's OK with you to continue on knowing that.

I'm hoping he comes back saying he wants a more permanent relationship with you. Hopefully this is a wake up call for him.

If not, is that what you want to sign up for? A guy that is a good time temporarily until you meet the right one? If so, then there is no issue. If not, then settle for nothing less.

There's also something about the things we can't have. They're a challenge and we always want them more than if they were easily accessible.

Whatever situation you choose to accept is OK. You just have to be OK with what you choose to accept and not expect anything to be other than what it is.

KaffeeKlatsch · Marc Jacobs

Well said, D!

ico · Dooney & Bourke

D, everything you said is right, except that I did not want P to know about E - I had to tell him because I thought it'd be very ugly if he learnt that from someone else. So I didn't go with E trying to shake P up, it just happened.

As for the rest, yes, I have thought about this. Yes, his exaggerated reaction makes me think he could want something more. But I think I am not gonna wait forever for him to make up his mind.

I am going to have a very honest conversation with him when he's back. I am ok about keeping things as they are, but he must understand this also means things like me going to the beach with someone else can happen.

Boots · Gucci

I think D covered it. You guys have been dating for almost a year. That should be more than enough time for him to decide if he wants a real, long term relationship with you. I'm sure it's something he has to really consider seriously since he's a father and seems like a good guy. But you shouldn't have to stay in limbo forever and you certainly shouldn't be made to feel like you have to jump through hoops for him. I think that you should be able to see who you want (especially platonicly!) and do what you want if you guys have agreed not to be exclusive. A year is about the right time for a "where are we?" sort of conversation, if only to get you both on the same page.

greendiamond · Marc Jacobs

Given that he is the one who initiated the 'nothing too serious' vibe for the relationship, I cannot understand why he is upset that you spent time with another man - especially if it wasn't romantic! He can't have it both ways!

I think your plan of having a chat with him when he is back is a good one - sounds like everyone needs to be on the same page again.

Good luck, and keep up posted!

Hermes

One more thing to add. 15 years ago, when my boyfriend was looking for a house to buy and would make references to me having the walk in closet, etc., I needed to know if he wanted me to move in with him. At the time, I was planning a move to New York City. His response to me was "I don't know. I've already been through all of that and I don't want to do it again." I told him "But, I'm not her." It wasn't fair to apply what hadn't worked for him with someone else to me. I didn't change his mind, so I left him. He and I wanted different things, and I wasn't going to waste time with him when I could be available for someone who wanted what I wanted.

He ended up wanting to get back together and we moved moved in together. I told him I didn't want to live together indefinitely and that I wanted to be married, and I again heard the excuse "I don't know. I've already been through all of that and I don't want to do it again." It was up to me to make a choice. I loved him, but I wanted a life-partner that wouldn't be afraid to legally commit to me. I started looking for an apartment, etc. What he was serving up wasn't what I wanted, so I decided it was best for me to leave so I could again, be available for the right relationship.

He then decided that he didn't want to lose me in his life and that we could get married. I in no way gave him an ultimatum. I was simply choosing not to stay in a type of relationship I didn't want. He is now my husband of 14 years. I'm not saying that it's all been easy, but a good, strong marriage can overcome any challenge.

I guess what I'm saying is don't allow him to penalize you for his past failed relationships. I also wanted to share that sometimes losing someone you take for granted can be a wake up call. Yes, we all want prince charming to be head over heels with us and get down on one knee, etc. but relationships sans the fairy tale can be pretty darn good too.

I'm really hoping it's a wake up call for your guy. But if it's not, there is a silver lining in having the freedom to find what you want.

pollyjean23 · Marc Jacobs

D wrote:
I told him "But, I'm not her." It wasn't fair to apply what hadn't worked for him with someone else to me.
I guess what I'm saying is don't allow him to penalize you for his past failed relationships.

Excellent, D. Very well said.

Suasoria · Chanel

He sounds married. You're positive he's not??

Honestly a year is a long time to date someone and not call it a commitment. It looks like a commitment to me. You love him, does he love you?

I'm at a disadvantage because it's a foreign culture, but you don't have anything to feel guilty about, and it doesn't seem very messy. You went out with a friend at work. What gender he is and what he looks like shouldn't matter. Your boyfriend overreacted because of his many insecurities:

- He is older and worries that you will lose interest in him
- He considers himself less attractive than other men you might meet
- He has children and worries you might prefer someone without children
- He is not emotionally available and he is afraid you will find someone who is.

But that's not *your* mess to worry about, it's *his* mess. The only way you can help is by petting his ego...and I'm not sure it's worth it.

ico · Dooney & Bourke

D - thanks for sharing your story. I am really admired at you strength and ability to pursue what you want.

Suasoria - I am pretty sure he's not with his wife - he's a colleague after all, so I'd know form one source or another.

The more I think about this whole story, the more I come to the same conclusion as Suasoria: it's his mess he needs to clear up.

I have pondered all the possible outcomes, and admit it'd be very difficoult to let him go... But if that's what he wants, so be it.

Suasoria · Chanel

Well, this time away should be good for you both. When he comes back I hope you have a good talk. Sending you love...!

ico · Dooney & Bourke

Quick update - the guy is seriously freaking out. He sent me like 20 texts yesterday.

Now he is almost sure some things I did last week, like going to my parents' for dinner on Wed, were excuses to see the other guy.
Then he says he's ruining my life because he doesn't have any rights to tie me down.
I can only tell him to be calm for now and we'll discuss all this later.

On one side, I am really sorry he is taking this whole thing so bad. On the other side, I think he is the one who looked exactly for this. But I feel mean for thinking so.

Boots · Gucci

Don't feel guilty. You aren't playing any games with him and have been very honest about your feelings and actions. The freak outs are his, not your's. Keep being honest and open and let him decide what the next step is.

Hermes

Boots wrote:
Don't feel guilty. You aren't playing any games with him and have been very honest about your feelings and actions. The freak outs are his, not your's. Keep being honest and open and let him decide what the next step is.

I agree. He also needs to realize that this is the situation he expressed he wanted. He has no right to not trust you or make you feel guilty for making his desires reality (in a sense.)

It's almost like you should say to him, "E and I are not romantically involved and our only meeting was at the beach. Even if E and I were to become romantically involved, isn't this what you wanted? Isn't this what you perpared yourself for all this time?" Just seems ridiculous he's freaking out when this is exactly what he invisioned for your and his future. Maybe you should ask him if what he said all along about not wanting a committed relationship and that you'd find someone else was just a game?

Mr. Cake eater needs to wake up wink

-- Edited by D on Wednesday 17th of August 2011 11:27:06 AM

Boots · Gucci

D wrote:
Boots wrote:
Don't feel guilty. You aren't playing any games with him and have been very honest about your feelings and actions. The freak outs are his, not your's. Keep being honest and open and let him decide what the next step is.
I agree. He also needs to realize that this is the situation he expressed he wanted. He has no right to not trust you or make you feel guilty for making his desires reality (in a sense.)
It's almost like you should say to him, "E and I are not romantically involved and our only meeting was at the beach. Even if E and I were to become romantically involved, isn't this what you wanted? Isn't this what you perpared yourself for all this time?" Just seems ridiculous he's freaking out when this is exactly what he invisioned for your and his future. Maybe you should ask him if what he said all along about not wanting a committed relationship and that you'd find someone else was just a game?
Mr. Cake eater needs to wake up

-- Edited by D on Wednesday 17th of August 2011 11:27:06 AM

I am so going to call those type of people Cake Eaters now. evileye l

itsapinkthing · Coach

I think his freak out might just be an excuse for him to bow out and blame you. He doesn't seem to want to be all in, but he also doesnt want to step out, and that is not fair to you. You need to ask yourself how long you want to stay in something that seemingly has no future. Sorry to be so blunt, but I feel like it's to easy to make excuses for him when your romantically attached...

ico · Dooney & Bourke

Well, there is another update. I am just wandering why I can't have my nice quiet 3 days vacation with my cousin...

The other guy, E, has kept sending me a couple of texts a day since I left. And yesterday he called me and asked if I wanted to go out on Fri or Sat.
I was very surprised I didn't have to think much before saying yes. At this point I think he might be interested in me, I am not sure what I think, but I haven't had many chances to talk to him outside work so I don't know him that well.

So I spent the evening with poor cousin, half complaining because P hasn't called me since Sun and feeling guilty for having said yes to E,, half trying to decide what I'll wear on Sat, until we met her friend for drinks and she got me drunk after taking my cell phone and keeping it under strict custody (I have smart relatives) - but that's another story.

The point is, I feel guilty about doing this to P, but at the same time I am tired of his complaints and I want to know E better.
And I think I am a bad person...

And "Mr. Cake Eater" is great, D!

Hermes

Well, that certainly makes things interesting doesn't it? Don't feel guilty -- you're not in a committed relationship (yet.)

I started to speculate, then stopped myself, because at this point, things can work out fairly simply.

I think you should go out with E (good for you for not hesitating) and see what Mr. Cake Eater wink has to say. Who knows, you may have a choice to make, or no choice at all.

I'm glad you have your cousin with you -- I'm sure this would be far more difficult without her there with you!

greendiamond · Marc Jacobs

The notion that you are a bad person in nonsense - don't even think it. Just because Mr. Cake Eater is bingeing on cake right now doesn't mean that going out with E is a bad idea. Have fun and see what happens - no guilt!

Boots · Gucci

Remember, it was his idea to be non-exculsive. Who knows, E could be the right guy for you. He could be the right guy for right now for you. Or he could just be a nice one time dinner date. You won't know until you get to know him better.

When you tell Mr. Cake Eater, let him know that your relationship with E, no mater what it is, is not a ploy by you to get him to commit. But also let him know that until he fugres out what he wants, you aren't putting your life on hold.