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erin


Chanel

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breastfeeding in public
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this topic was brought up on another messageboard i post on, and i am curious as to what ladies think here. in response to this:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/27/nursing.cover.ap/index.html



Lactivists: Where is it OK to breastfeed?
Babytalk magazine generates controversy with nursing cover

NEW YORK (AP) -- "I was SHOCKED to see a giant breast on the cover of your magazine," one person wrote. "I immediately turned the magazine face down," wrote another. "Gross," said a third.

These readers weren't complaining about a sexually explicit cover, but rather one of a baby nursing, on a wholesome parenting magazine -- yet another sign that Americans are squeamish over the sight of a nursing breast, even as breast-feeding itself gains more support from the government and medical community.

Babytalk is a free magazine whose readership is overwhelmingly mothers of babies. Yet in a poll of more than 4,000 readers, a quarter of responses to the cover were negative, calling the photo -- a baby and part of a woman's breast, in profile -- inappropriate.

One mother who didn't like the cover explains she was concerned about her 13-year-old son seeing it.

"I shredded it," said Gayle Ash, of Belton, Texas, in a telephone interview. "A breast is a breast -- it's a sexual thing. He didn't need to see that."

It's the same reason that Ash, 41, who nursed all three of her children, is cautious about breast-feeding in public -- a subject of enormous debate among women, which has even spawned a new term: "lactivists," meaning those who advocate for a woman's right to nurse wherever she needs to.

"I'm totally supportive of it -- I just don't like the flashing," she said. "I don't want my son or husband to accidentally see a breast they didn't want to see."

Another mother, Kelly Wheatley, wrote Babytalk to applaud the cover, precisely because, she said, it helps educate people that breasts are more than sex objects. And yet Wheatley, 40, who's still nursing her 3-year-old daughter, rarely breast-feeds in public, partly because it's more comfortable in the car, and partly because her husband is uncomfortable with other men seeing her breast.

"Men are very visual," said Wheatley, of Amarillo, Texas. "When they see a woman's breast, they see a breast -- regardless of what it's being used for."

Babytalk editor Susan Kane says the mixed response to the cover clearly echoes the larger debate over breast-feeding in public. "There's a huge Puritanical streak in Americans," she said, "and there's a squeamishness about seeing a body part -- even part of a body part."

"It's not like women are whipping them out with tassels on them," she added. "Mostly, they are trying to be discreet."

Kane said that since the August issue came out last week, the magazine has received more than 700 letters -- more than for any article in years.

"Gross, I am sick of seeing a baby attached to a boob," wrote Lauren, a mother of a 4-month-old.

The evidence of public discomfort isn't just anecdotal. In a survey published in 2004 by the American Dietetic Association, less than half -- 43 percent -- of 3,719 respondents said women should have the right to breast-feed in public places.

The debate rages at a time when the celebrity-mom phenomenon has made breast-feeding perhaps more public than ever. Gwyneth Paltrow, Brooke Shields, Kate Hudson and Kate Beckinsale are only a few of the stars who've talked openly about their nursing experiences.

The celeb factor has even brought a measure of chic to that unsexiest of garments: the nursing bra. Gwen Stefani can be seen on babyrazzi.com -- a site with a self-explanatory name -- sporting a leopard-print version from lingerie line Agent Provocateur.

And fellow moms recognized a white one under Angelina Jolie's tank top on the cover of People. (Katie Holmes, meanwhile, suffered a maternity wardrobe malfunction when cameras caught her, nursing bra open and peeking out of her shirt, while on the town with fiance Tom Cruise.)

More seriously, the social and medical debate has intensified. The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services recently concluded a two-year breast-feeding awareness campaign including a TV ad -- criticized as over-the-top even by some breast-feeding advocates -- in which not breast-feeding was equated with the recklessness of a pregnant woman riding a mechanical bull.

There have been other measures to promote breast-feeding: In December, for example, Massachusetts banned hospitals from giving new mothers gift bags with free infant formula, a practice opponents said swayed some women away from nursing.

Most states now have laws guaranteeing the right to breast-feed where one chooses, and when a store or restaurant employee denies a woman that right, it has often resulted in public protests known as "nurse-ins": at a Starbucks in Miami, Florida, at Victoria's Secret stores in Racine, Wisconsin, and Boston, Massachusetts, and, last year, outside ABC headquarters in New York, when Barbara Walters made comments on "The View" seen by some women to denigrate breast-feeding in public.

"It's a new age," says Melinda Johnson, a registered dietitian and spokesperson for ADA. "With the government really getting behind breast-feeding, it's been a jumping-off point for mothers to be politically active. Mommies are organizing. It's a new trend to be a mommy activist."

Ultimately, it seems to be a highly personal matter. Caly Wood said she's "all for breast-feeding in public." She recalls with a shudder the time she sat nursing in a restaurant booth, and another woman walked by, glanced over and said, "Ugh, gross."

"My kid needed to eat," said the 29-year-old from South Abingdon, Massachusetts. And she wasn't going to go hide in a not-so-clean restroom: "I don't send people to the bathroom when they want to eat," she said.

But Rebekah Kreutz thinks differently. One of six women who author SisterhoodSix, a blog on mothering issues, Kreutz didn't nurse her two daughters in public and doesn't really feel comfortable seeing others do it.

"I respect it and think women have the right," says Kreutz, 34, of Bozeman, Montana. "But personally, it makes me really uncomfortable."

"I just think it's one of those moments that should stay between a mother and her child."

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

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Maddie


Coach

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erin wrote:

"I respect it and think women have the right," says Kreutz, 34, of Bozeman, Montana. "But personally, it makes me really uncomfortable."



These are pretty much my thoughts on it. I don't have kids and don't plan on having kids any time in the near future (if ever), but I really don't think I'd be a public breast feeder. I'm a pretty modest person. I don't really care if other people do, but to be honest, I find it kind of weird. Peeing is also a natural process, but we still do it in private.

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relrel


Marc Jacobs

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Breastfeeding in public is the coolest thing! I will not have any kids, but if I did, I would breastfeed for as long as possible and everywhere I went. I completely understand the grossing-out factor, it is a semi-naked boob afterall, so I don't look down on anybody who does. But I get my own personal activist thrill out of seeing a woman breastfeeding in public- I always want to go up to her and thank her for having the courage for doing it. When I (finally) get full-on into my role as a public health consultant on maternal/child health issues for the government (which is where I am heading) gaining full federal rights on breastfeeding in public will be right up there on my list of things to accomplish.


However, I do question the one mother in the article who says she still breastfeeds her 3-year old daughter. I have my doubts about the health benefits at three years of age and about any sort of psychological issues or otherwise. 3 years old just seems really old to still be breastfeeding. The way I figure it, once the kid is well into solid foods, the breastmilk can be weaned out of the diet.



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Bastet


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Most women I've seen doing it are very discreet about it, so it doesn't really bother me.  I understand that the baby needs to eat.  I do get annoyed with the most rabid of "lactivists" however.  I think their over-the-top behavior actually scares the saner mothers away from breastfeeding in public for fear of being associated with their activisim. 


There is a difference between being pro-breastfeeding, pro-education about its benefits, and the crazy subculture of guilt that surrounds how one feeds one's child.  Every mother I know feels guilty, regardless of whether they breastfeed or formula feed. 


When it comes down to it, I think breastfeeding vs. formula is a personal choice for every mother and that "lactivisits" and their pro-formula counterparts should collectively butt out since it's none of their business anyway.  I don't have kids, but if/when I do, I'm not going to tell other mothers that the choice they made regarding feeding is wrong just because it's different from mine.  I would hope that other women would do the same for me. 



-- Edited by Bastet at 16:25, 2006-07-31

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asf


Kate Spade

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i totally agree with relrel, i think it's awesome.  bring on the boobs!


but seriously, if you're nursing and not using bottles, and the kid's hungry, you feed it.  it shouldn't matter where you are.  i'm not sure i'd be comfortable nursing in public, i get annoyed enough with icky men staring at my boobs now when they're fully covered, but i have no problem with anyone else doing it.  it may be a little uncomfortable for some people, but i think most women are pretty discreet about it and you're not going to see much boob unless you're trying to.


and i also agree that three is waaay too old to be nursing.  something isn't right there.


 


eta: the emoticon above is called "laughing" and is not, in this context, supposed to resemble a panting pervert.



-- Edited by asf at 10:56, 2006-08-01

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laken1


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Maddie wrote:

erin wrote:

"I respect it and think women have the right," says Kreutz, 34, of Bozeman, Montana. "But personally, it makes me really uncomfortable."



These are pretty much my thoughts on it. I don't have kids and don't plan on having kids any time in the near future (if ever), but I really don't think I'd be a public breast feeder. I'm a pretty modest person. I don't really care if other people do, but to be honest, I find it kind of weird. Peeing is also a natural process, but we still do it in private.


Couldn't have said it better myself. While I do agree with a mom's right to do it I can't help but feel a little uncomfortable about doing it in public.

I worked with a girl that brought her baby up to the office to show everyone & he got hungry. She came in my office (didn't close the door or anything) whipped out her boob & started feeding the baby. She covered him with a blanket & proceeded to walk around the bank during business hours & went to talk to the boss while the baby was eating. It was just awkward. When she left he was really horrified - he was VERY conservative & I just kind of thought she was doing it for shock value. She could have #1) warned me #2) asked me if I was uncomfortable & if so, I could have chosen to leave #3) stayed in my office & not breast fed in front of the boss. Am I wrong?

I guess I just think that just because someone is comfortable with it themselves doesn't mean that everyone else is too? I liken it to most anything kid related though, some moms are super sensitive to the feelings of others in public situations where there baby is concerned, like when/ where they change diapers or walking out of church or a restaurant if the baby is continuously crying. Others just feel that everyone else needs to deal with it......

ETA: hope none of that is offensive to anyone & I'd love feedback / comments. This is one of the things I love best about this forum - the opportunity to see different points of view & challenge my own issues....

-- Edited by laken1 at 09:34, 2006-08-01

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blubirde


Chanel

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I'm torn on this issue. I consider myself very liberal, especially when it comes to women's rights. My mind says, yes, a woman should be able to breastfeed in public anytime she/the baby needs to because what does the alternative say? That mothers should stay at home and never be allowed out in public? That we're all too prudish to accept the human body and its functions?


That said, quite honestly, there's still an ick factor for me. It seems like a private bodily function and I feel intrusive when I witness it. But yet I don't feel the same way if I see a mother changing her baby's diaper in the public restroom. (Well, there's an ick factor but no greater than anything else that happens in a public restroom.)


I guess my point is that I would never, ever tell a woman she couldn't breastfeed in public. But I certainly feel a little grossed out when I see it. (To be fair, I got icked out even when my sil did it and she wasn't even in public.)



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Lilykind


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asf wrote:


but seriously, if you're nursing and not using bottles, and the kid's hungry, you feed it.  it shouldn't matter where you are.  i'm not sure i'd be comfortable nursing in public, i get annoyed enough with icky men staring at my boobs now when they're fully covered, but i have no problem with anyone else doing it.  it may be a little uncomfortable for some people, but i think most women are pretty discreet about it and you're not going to see much boob unless you're trying to.


ITA. I'd like to believe that most adults are mature enough to realize that this is logical thinking. I'd also like to believe that men don't get erections and start panting every time they see a boob, naked or otherwise.


 



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gingembre1


Kate Spade

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Americans are such prudes.  It's a boob.  A roundish hunk of fat.  In many countries they are a commonplace sighting on beaches, in commercials, on billboards, movies, magazines, etc.  If people weren't so puritanical about guarding their children from the sight of a (GASP) boob, boobs wouldn't be taboo. 

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Irene


Dooney & Bourke

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I think a part of the problem is that we are taught that breats are dirty, pornographic, etc. There is nothing dirty about a woman breastfeeding her child. I have no problem with it, nor does anyone else I know. I have a bigger problem with women who feel the need to bring heir 12 year old boys into the ladies room to pee. Excuse me, that child is way too old for that. Let him use the men's room. Ick!

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Metric


Gucci

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Wait, let me wrap my head around this...


Pamela Anderson showing her enormous fake tata's on the cover of Maxim= ok with general public


Fairly innocent shot of side of boob used in a non-sexual way on parenting magazine= not ok




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blink


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This is cool and I am in complete support of breastfeeding in public.  I nursed until 15 months for my first son, my goal had been 12 months, but it was easier to wean a little later.  I agree that 3 is too old, but I believe there is some benefit to breastfeeding up until 2 years old....The World Health Organization recommends this too.  But personally, I guess I am sort of a shy lactivist when it somes to actually showing the world. 


I am way too attention shy to try nursing in public...although I did do so out of neccessity (I had no pumped bottles, as there was no refrigerator) in a Mexico airport on the way home from vacation last year, and on the plane too, but I was discreet and covered up and I am sure people would have rather me done this than hear a screaming 10 month old.


Bottom line, it's just no big deal and people are going to have to get over it.



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Kelly


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I understand that it's something that needs to be done if you have a baby. I, however, am far too modest to see myself doing anything like that. I feel weird wearing a skirt that's any shorter than my knees (I know it's a little overkill, I can't explain it). So I can't see myself whipping my boob out all the time. My cousin, I think, had the best comprimise. If there wasn't a man around, she would position her baby to breastfeed and obviously had to pull her shirt down, etc. But then she would put a blanket over the baby and her chest - so we didn't all have to feel weird about it. If men were around, she would excuse herself to a corner to get everything situated before coming back. I feel like that's what I'll do if I have children.

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Sibeski


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WELL SAID!  RelRel.


This is a hot issue for me.  I am a breastfeeding mother, this is how I feed my baby.  No one in public has EVER seen my boob.  Why is it ok to wear a thong bathing suit, or a backless dress/shirt but not ok to feed children?  I understand that some people get squirmy and I respect that - don't look.  That's what I do when I see som'n I don't like.


My Aunt does not approve of breastfeeding in public, she never had kids.  [Not that having kids automatically makes you want to BF]  She recently asked me why I don't go to the restroom or to the car for a feeding (hence my sensitivity). Um, you don't leave your pets in the car, but you'll send me and my baby out?  As for going to the bathroom, I asked her if she would like to bring her meal in and join me.  Obviously she wrinkled her nose at eating her meal in the restroom.  It's the same thing!!!!!


Long story, I know.  When did feeding your baby become sexual and/or gross?  BUT-these arguments could probably be used back on me - as I do not approve of BFing older children.  According to the AAP there is no other reason to BF after 1 year of age. I feel like I should have put this in as a rant!  But- it's my opinion.



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erin


Chanel

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Sibeski wrote:


Long story, I know.  When did feeding your baby become sexual and/or gross?  BUT-these arguments could probably be used back on me - as I do not approve of BFing older children.  According to the AAP there is no other reason to BF after 1 year of age. I feel like I should have put this in as a rant!  But- it's my opinion.




actually, breastfeeding two years reduces your risk of breast cancer by at least 1/3. (although i think three is a bit old)

also, i guess i should add my thoughts: i bf whenever and wherever i need to. if i am with company, however, i do ask if it is ok because i understand people can be uncomfortable with this.

my personal goal is one year.

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sephorablue


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Maddie wrote:


erin wrote:

"I respect it and think women have the right," says Kreutz, 34, of Bozeman, Montana. "But personally, it makes me really uncomfortable."

These are pretty much my thoughts on it. I don't have kids and don't plan on having kids any time in the near future (if ever), but I really don't think I'd be a public breast feeder. I'm a pretty modest person. I don't really care if other people do, but to be honest, I find it kind of weird. Peeing is also a natural process, but we still do it in private.

this sums up my thoughts too, exactly. I recognize that it's a little silly for me to be squeamish about it, but I can't help it. However, I certainly don't think it's "gross" as some of the people quoted in the article said.

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Elle


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Well, firstly most women breastfeeding in public are not sitting their with their shirts off and their entire breast exposed.  Like many of you expressed concerns over the modesty of it for yourselves, chances are there are many breastfeeding mothers that feel the same way - they don't want to show their breasts any more than other people want to look at them.


I am pro-breastfeeding and pro public breastfeeding - it's a natural thing and isn't inherently sexual or explicit.  However, I do feel that some discretion should be used by the mother, as much for the privacy of her and her baby as for the comfort of others.  Most people do use that discretion IMO (a light blanket, waiting until breastfeeding is established before attempting to nurse in very public places so it can be done without much need to really see what you're doing, etc).  However, there is always going to be a certain percentage of the population that doesn't realize/care/think they should care/whathaveyou that their actions may make people uncomfortable or go against what others may find 'appropriate'.  Nursing mothers are not exempt from this group.


I don't personally agree with breasfeeding in public being compared to peeing in public, but I can see how the two could be equated in someone's mind.  It's about the baby eating - the breast is only involved to facilitate that.  Many women show more boob in a low cut top when they go out at night than is on the cover of that magazine.  Nobody really fusses when Jessica Simpson or Pam Anderson have a majority of their boobs exposed on a magazine - how is it different when a baby is covering the nipple instead of a wisp of fabric?  At least the boob on the cover of Babytalk is being useful!  It baffles me that we as a reasonably conservative society don't have as much of a problem with boobs as sexual objects as we do with boobs as supplying nutrition for offspring.


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Aurora


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my only encounter with a public bf was when I was sitting in an olive garden trying to eat my dinner and at the table in front of me was a woman obviously bf (somewhat covered/somewhat not).  It made me uncomfortable as I was not planning on seeing that as I ate.


I'm not sure what her plans that day were - how long she had been away from home, where she was going after but since she was with a rather large group of friends I wonder if bringing a bottle from home might have been better.


I would never bf in public but I won't crucify others who choose to if they would do it tactfully (sp??).



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Elle


Hermes

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Aurora wrote:


I'm not sure what her plans that day were - how long she had been away from home, where she was going after but since she was with a rather large group of friends I wonder if bringing a bottle from home might have been better.




I just wanted to point something out though - if she had been out a long time, any bottle would have had to have been kept cold for the duration.  And expressing breast milk is somewhat of a time consuming process and can take some women multiple pumping sessions to produce enough for a single bottle.  When you're feeding a baby from the source and having to pump in between to accumulate bottles it can be a nearly full time job - and as such some pumping moms refer to that hard-won expressed milk as Liquid Gold.  Also, some babies refuse all forms of non-breast feeding, for whatever reason, or won't take bottles from their mothers because they know they can get it directly from them.


There's so many more complications you realize when you've seen in from the inside or been around it alot.  But then again maybe people who have seen it from the inside or been around it alot are less likely to be uncomfortable with it in the first place ......


Just sayin' .....


Edit:  More things about this keep popping into my mind, sorry!  I also wanted to say that most people have had more experiences being around breasfeeding than they think, they just don't realize it!  If someone is being indiscreet enough for a passerby to really notice, and notice enough that it makes a negative impression on them, they probably aren't being all that discreet (and sometimes that can't be helped, if the baby is unusually fussy or whatever).  If someone is being discreet enough that it wouldn't make most people uncomfortable if they did see it, it's probably not someone you'd notice in the first place .



-- Edited by Elle at 13:45, 2006-08-06

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itsapinkthing


Coach

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VERY well explained Elle, and I whole heartedly agree with every statement you made. I was determined to breastfeed with Madeline. It was such a struggle in the begining, and I was trying to feed and pump and that WAS a fulltime job, and at that I could only pump 2 oz at a time if I was lucky! We worked very hard on it at home. I would never have attempted it in public until I knew we were an expert team. I also knew there were sure to be times I may need to feed her in public, and we practiced how we could do it as modestly as possible. In the end I was not able to continue breatfeeding. But I would hate to think if I had my hard fought efforts would be so frowned apon in public.

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