STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

PrincessPink · BCBG

Duke Lacrosse - Guilty or Not?

Hermes

I don't know what to think. I didn't read the story you posted, but I did hear that a doctor determined her trauma took place prior to the alleged incident.

Mandy · Kate Spade

Based on the information that is on the news, I don't think she was raped. They were probably incredibly rude to her and treated her inappropriately, but I don't think that they assaulted or raped her. Something may have happened that she thought crossed a line and this could be her way of getting back at them. As a woman, I hate to not believe another woman in a case like this, but I work for a criminal defense attorney so I see things from the perspective of the defendant a little more now.

PrincessPink · BCBG

Oh, that's so interesting about your job - I'd love to get your perspective again as more and more stuff comes out in the media about this. Yeah, I hate ot discount her too, but it is beginning to seem to not be true... Stay tuned!

NCshopper · Hermes

I live in Raleigh, NC (about 20 min. away from Durham) and it is ALL over the news here. It's a HUGE deal. I feel like race relations in Durham are extremely tense right now over this whole situation and I feel like if she lied about it, it's only going to get worse.

What I find really odd is that there's no DNA on her at all. They found nothing in her fingernails or anywhere else. And I'm sorry, but I would think that if I were being raped and choked like she says she was, I'd be clawing at the person doing it. So I find it very strange that there's nothing on her. She also has a past criminal record in which she gave a taxi driver a lap dance and then stole the taxi and later tried to run over a police officer with it. Now, I'm not saying that she's lying based on this, because obviously rape can happen to anyone, but I just think that ruins her credibility. Just a tad.

The DA in the case has some suspect motives for this being in the media spotlight. Durham County is a predominantly African-American county and the DA is white. The primary is coming up in May and his opposition is an African-American. So it seems to me that the DA could be going after this case as hard as he is in order to win the black vote.

I guess I don't really know what to think. The case is really shady, but I hate to discount someone claiming they were raped. But I just don't know here.

jj · Kate Spade

I just read this news report:

Mike Nifong , the Durham, N.C., district attorney in charge of the investigation into an alleged sexual assault by members of the Duke lacrosse team, said Tuesday he does not need DNA evidence to bring charges and vowed, "This case is not going away."

Nifong spoke a day after defense attorneys said DNA testing failed to connect any of the players to the alleged attack on a black stripper who said she was raped at a party by members of the team.

Nifong stopped short of confirming the defense assessment of the DNA results, but said the case would not be hampered by a lack of DNA evidence.

"It doesn't mean nothing happened," Nifong said at a public forum at North Carolina Central University, where the 27-year-old alleged victim is a student. "It just means nothing was left behind."

Excuse my ignorance, but is it possible to rape someone and leave nothing behind?

Mandy · Kate Spade

jj wrote:

Excuse my ignorance, but is it possible to rape someone and leave nothing behind?

If you use a condom I guess you wouldn't really leave anything behind. But the fact that there was no other evidence under her nails or anything makes me suspicious. Especially with what NCShopper said about her past.

twinkle · Coach

Apparently its completely possible that no DNA was left behind, but that doesn't mean there wasn't other evidence that we don't know about. However, I also heard on the radio that they have timed, stamped photos of her walking into the party already beat up.

valenciana · Dooney & Bourke

Mara wrote:

However, I also heard on the radio that they have timed, stamped photos of her walking into the party already beat up.

How weird would that be to have a stripper show up at your house all beat up???

As for her allegedly stealing a taxi after giving the driver a lap dance, I believe that rape shield laws would prevent her unsavory past from having an impact on this current case even just in that it lowers her credibility. That said, it won't stop her from being crucified in the court of public opinion... It all sounds very fishy to me but we may never know what really happened.

Even if it is true, I don't feel that it reflects badly on Duke or even Duke's athletic program. There are bad eggs everywhere. I won't be first in line for the next Duke lacrosse party however.

Drew · Gucci

I don't believe her. I understand that in many cases DNA evidence is not left, but those are single rapes, not gang-rapes. She say's at least four men raped her; if that is the case, then how on earth isn't there even one shred of DNA evidence. Also, I heard about the pictures taken before she even walked in, and supposedly it proves she was already beaten upon arrival.

However, I think it should be a lesson to all that when you invite trouble to walk through your door, then trouble you will have. I'm not saying it's the guys fault for inviting a stripper over, but if they had stayed on the up-and-up this could never have happened.

blink · Coach

I believe something happened, there doesn't have to be dna left behind. I don't like that the players weren't forthcoming with the police. If it were an innocent situation, they would be talking and defending one another. In sort of a similar way, this is why I am sure that one of those three guy friends in Aruba did kill Natalie Holloway.

Any one have thoughts about the supposed email that MSNBC's The Abrams Report had last week? It was supposedly from one of the players to the rest of the team saying something like, "Sorry guys, I am going to tell the police everything I know tomorrow."?

honey · Gucci

lorelei wrote:

I believe something happened, there doesn't have to be dna left behind. I don't like that the players weren't forthcoming with the police. If it were an innocent situation, they would be talking and defending one another.

i see your point, but honestly if i were in that situation i wouldn't be forthcoming either. maybe i've seen too many episodes of law & order, but i would totally lawyer up b/f talking to the police.

Drew · Gucci

I heard a little more on this over the weekend and came up with a theory on what happpened. It's just a theory, but it could be on the right track...

So, this weekend I found out that she was paid $400 for her services. She was also found passed out drunk on the side walk earlier that day by a police officer who called it in to dispatch (I heard it on TV); she was fine, just passed out from being too drunk. She forgot/left/whatever her purse at the house with the money in it. The students said they didn't even realize she had left her bag at the house. When police searched the house they found it and the girl said it wasn't missing anything. Which leads me to my little theory: I think she was paid for sex. So that would explain why she had "trauma" consistent with rape. If four to seven guys had sex with a girl I'm sure there would be trauma there; but it would also explain why there wouldn't be a shred of DNA; if she were not being raped, but having consential sex w/condoms there would be "trauma" but not -say-skin under her fingernails. Also, if she were really fucked up on drugs and alcohol (which is confirmed from her earlier incident) I could see how she would leave her purse at the house and under the influence believe they had stolen her bag/money. In that case I could see how she would vow revenge or even really consider it rape (since she didn't get the money) and then pursue the incident. Of course the guys cannot say that they hired a hooker and had sex with her; any admission of sex is all they need because the girl would say she is not a hooker and the sex was not consentual.

I really don't even think that my theory is so farfetched; I think it kinda makes sense of what happened? Anyone want to counter my theory with their own, or poke some holes in it?

PrincessPink · BCBG

I'm going to bump my own thread - I just got into work and saw this in the news: http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?p=653092&posted=1#post653092

Apparently the alleged Dule Lax rape victim has claimed to be raped by 3 white men back in 1993. And her mother came out this morning and said that last year she sought help for mental illness. If she made this up - its really going to suck for a lot of people. First and foremost, she hurts all other women who might really get raped b/c the seeds of doubt have now been planted in the minds of teh public. Then, let's talk about all teh other kids on the team who are in fact innocent. No one is going to remember that they played on the team that took Duke to number #2 for the first time in like the last ten years. Everyone is going to remember they played on the team that had a bunch of rapists on it. And, of course, the worst tragedy is for Collin and Reade - if they are innocent? This is going to change the rest of their lives.

What do you guys think?

P.S. I think I need coffee. Its way to early for me to be this fired up!!

blink · Coach

About the negative DNA tests, I thought about this over the weekend when I saw a special on TLC about chimeras, people who carry two sets of DNA. There is no idea how many chimera's exist today because it is very rare to need to have your DNA tested anyway. It is very likely that in a chimera rape case, the DNA left in semen and the DNA found when blood is tested will look like two entirely different people. Obviously a positive DNA test is conclusive, but these days, a negative DNA test does not clear one of a crime.

dewdk · BCBG

i am not sure if she lied, if she was confused or if something "innapropriate" happend, but you can be raped and take a shower and most dna will wash away. most rape victims feel dirty after it happens and take a shower where they scrub vigorusly to "remove" the memory of the trauma. that could be the reason why the dna was washed away.

Plus do you really think the prosecutor would still go to trial with no dna evidence and a liar if he thought all of this was made up? I mean he would be going to trial on a case he would have to know he would probablly loose with a poor witness and he said she said as the crux of his case. not to many prosecutors want to risk all of that if they don't think the victim is telling the truth. on the other hand she is a pretty wacky witness, but like someone else said under rape shield a lot of her past can't be used in court. the victim isn't on trial the possible perpertrators are.

either way i feel badly for everyone involved. it sounds like a convuluted mess and no one is ever really going to know what happened at that party.

PrincessPink · BCBG

Personally, I think the DA thought he could use this case to win the black vote in the area and he jumped the gun, going to the media before he had done his due diligence in researching the crime. It back fired on him. That's my personal opinion. Thoughts?

NCshopper · Hermes

PrincessPink wrote:

Personally, I think the DA thought he could use this case to win the black vote in the area and he jumped the gun, going to the media before he had done his due diligence in researching the crime. It back fired on him. That's my personal opinion. Thoughts?

That's exactly what I think too. I think Nifong thought he could get the black vote if he prosecuted a bunch of rich white guys from a university that's very much seen as an elitist school. The primary is tomorrow and I'm dying to know what happens!

curiouscookie · BCBG

NCshopper wrote:

PrincessPink wrote:
Personally, I think the DA thought he could use this case to win the black vote in the area and he jumped the gun, going to the media before he had done his due diligence in researching the crime. It back fired on him. That's my personal opinion. Thoughts?
That's exactly what I think too. I think Nifong thought he could get the black vote if he prosecuted a bunch of rich white guys from a university that's very much seen as an elitist school. The primary is tomorrow and I'm dying to know what happens!

I agree, this is my opinion too. Definitely a case of political aspirations getting in the way of the judicial system. Though by no means am I convinced these guys are completely innocent, being accused of rape is a totally different ball game. If this is a false charge of a woman crying wolf, I hate to think of what it will do for any other innocent women who is truly raped and doesn't get justice.

I really hope all these terrible feelings generated by the case can bring about a greater integration between the University and the community. Duke has always been viewed as an elitist school where the students and the university don't really contribute much to the Durham community. My guess is this view is mainly of the undergrads. Having worked here for the past year I don't feel that people are really racist/intollerant but there are always exeptions to the rule. I am south asian and haven't felt any prejudices either socially, culturally or professionally towards people of different races.

PrincessPink · BCBG

So I heard this morning that the school is recommending the reinstatment of the lax team for next season. Anyone know what happened with the DA primary?