STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

sfclinevandy · Coach

Know-it-all friend

jacL · Coach

Ugh, I don't have any advice, I just think she sounds annoying. Optimistically, she is just trying to be a good friend and offer advice even though she doesn't really have any credibility. It will be funny when she finally gets in a serious relationship and realizes she may like to do some things she previously thought were too kinky or ends up hating his sister. (Sorry, not trying to be mean.)

esquiress · Marc Jacobs

this reminds me of what maya angelou said on oprah once, how the older she gets the more she realizes she really doesn't know very much at all and how her son went through this phase when he was 18 when he thought he knew everything.

anyway, i'm sure it must be really frustrating dealing w/ D, i don't necessarily think that she's mean-spirited though so maybe there's hope. she probably just honestly believes she's right and if E would just listen to her, everything would be better. And the thing is D may in fact be right, just because she's a virgin and hasn't had a boyfriend doesn't mean her opinion's not valid. So there's no sense in trying to prove she doesn't know what she's talking about--not only is that mean, i think it's counter-productive as well.

because here's the thing--who cares if she's right? imo, being right is never the point. in this situation the only point is E is hurting, and D's not helping, even though she probably thinks she is. so instead of trying to shame her into admitting she's wrong (she never will and you never know she just might be right), i'd just take her aside and talk to her. Tell her you think she hurt E's feelings and yes maybe she (D) is right and maybe she's wrong but "we don't want E to stop talking to us because she's afraid of us judging her and she's in a really fragile place right now so maybe we should all just take it easy."

i dunno, if D's a sweet girl in general, she may feel bad about making E feel bad and not get on her soapbox anymore. hth!

ShanKel · Kenneth Cole

I agree with esquiress that D may be right but it sounds like she can be very judgemental as well as opinionated at times? If i'm right, thats probably whats so annoying about her especially since she has never been in E's shoes . Having an opinion is one thing but when your forcing your advice down someones throat that another. I would politely tell her all relationships aren't peachy all the time and that those things may work for you but that doesnt mean that its good for everyone else. She may not be doing it intentionally so I think you should definetely say something, just dont say it when shes annoying the hell out of you. It may come out the wrong way

sfclinevandy · Coach

Thanks everybody. I guess I should have made myself clearer... it's not that she's always so opinionated, it's her being judgemental that gets SO annoying. Next time it comes up, I think I'll say why her suggestion may be nice... it isn't what I've experienced in any of my relationships (such as me and my ex's sister not caring for each other but my relationship was fine nonetheless).

scarlett · Marc Jacobs

that definitely sounds very annoying. i can imagine listening to D talking and wanting to just tell her to shut up, especially when it's upsetting another friend. however, having once been the girl who had no experience when her friends did (granted, this was when i was in 10th grade!) i remember feeling embarrassed and self-conscious about it. do you think D is really conscious of her comparative lack of experience, and covering up by talking this way?

splash · Kenneth Cole

this sounds so annoying! I'm confused by what you said you plan to do next time she talks like this. But I think since, as scarlett says, she may feel insecure about being so inexperienced, it would be better to approach it, for this specific situation, as, 'I think saying this type of thing might be making E more reluctant to talk. I think it's great that you are offering suggestions, because I can tell that you care about her, but I think the (tone of voice, insistence, whatever), makes her feel like she has to defend herself.' What I mean is, acknowledge her caring-ness, but then give a suggestion about how to state her opinion more gently. Maybe later you can say, when other instances come up, that you think her opinion is valid, but whatever experiences you've had show it's not always the case.... So, stick to this instance for now, since it's important for E's sake, and later talk about the more general judgmental-ism.

Dizzy · Marc Jacobs

Ouch - I've been there with another friend whose judgmental (and hypocritical!) comments were really hurting my feelings at a bad time. But I really didn't handle it well at all. I tried being direct, which made her super defensive (she called at least three people to talk about my "issues" - who's to say she's wrong

,) and then I just avoided her (probably not the healthiest but I was too sick of her to do anything else). Surprise surprise, we dont' talk anymore. So I can tell you what didn't work, but as far as what does... no clue.

Maybe being direct would work if you're better at it than I am. I was so mad that I was using alot of "You make me feel..." and "You are so..." statements. If I'd been a bit more tactful it might have turned out better. It sounds like this friend is close enough that you can't just cut her out of your life, so there might be a stronger base to work from, too...

Good luck!

sephorablue · Marc Jacobs

First of all, the thing about listing names of everyone you've ever hooked up or slept with and SHOWING PHOTOS???????? I can't even address the rest of your post until I express how completely and wildly irrational such a thing is! I mean, where the hell do you GET an idea like that? That is BONKERS!!!

OK. I think I got that out of my system. Barely. It definitely sounds like she's very insecure about her relationship status. I am actually familiar with this scenario because one of my close friends is a virgin who's never had a boyfriend and since we are now all 26/27, it's past the point where we can truthfully tell her that there are lots of other people in the same boat. Thankfully, my friend has too much grace and wisdom and empathy to run around offering know-it-all, judgmental advice (although that wasn't always true--in college she was still preaching the "no one will buy a cow if he can get the milk for free" line and it totally disgusted me), but I know she sometimes feels painfully inadequate and lonely, even though in every other aspect of her life she is highly accomplished. So I'm sure your friend feels the same way, and is overcompensating by hitting y'all over the head with The Gospel Truth (i.e. her opinion). Every time you all have a conversation about men, it's another dose of something she wants but hasn't had, and although she obviously loves you guys it's probably just a neverending series of "why not me?" moments inside her head.

Unless, of course, the reason she's never really dated anyone is because she genuinely believes all her own BS, but it sounds to me like half of what she spouts out is stuff she doesn't really believe but says to make herself feel better for never having had a relationship. Like, if she thinks she's doing everything right then not having a relationship feels like a conscious choice instead of just bad luck or worse. As nasty as it is, judging other people is a way to feel better about yourself, so I suspect that is one big reason why she is doing it.

I think the others have good advice for how to tactfully address the situation and at least make her aware that she is not helping your other friend feel better or resolve her issues. I think it would also help you deal with her in the future if, instead of getting irritated, you try to remind yourself of what may be going on inside her head that's making her behave that way. It doesn't excuse her, but being compassionate will probably prevent you from getting quite as pissed off!

blubirde · Chanel

quote:
Originally posted by: sephorablue
"First of all, the thing about listing names of everyone you've ever hooked up or slept with and SHOWING PHOTOS???????? I can't even address the rest of your post until I express how completely and wildly irrational such a thing is! I mean, where the hell do you GET an idea like that? That is BONKERS!!!
OK. I think I got that out of my system. Barely. It definitely sounds like she's very insecure about her relationship status. I am actually familiar with this scenario because one of my close friends is a virgin who's never had a boyfriend and since we are now all 26/27, it's past the point where we can truthfully tell her that there are lots of other people in the same boat. Thankfully, my friend has too much grace and wisdom and empathy to run around offering know-it-all, judgmental advice (although that wasn't always true--in college she was still preaching the "no one will buy a cow if he can get the milk for free" line and it totally disgusted me), but I know she sometimes feels painfully inadequate and lonely, even though in every other aspect of her life she is highly accomplished. So I'm sure your friend feels the same way, and is overcompensating by hitting y'all over the head with The Gospel Truth (i.e. her opinion). Every time you all have a conversation about men, it's another dose of something she wants but hasn't had, and although she obviously loves you guys it's probably just a neverending series of "why not me?" moments inside her head.
Unless, of course, the reason she's never really dated anyone is because she genuinely believes all her own BS, but it sounds to me like half of what she spouts out is stuff she doesn't really believe but says to make herself feel better for never having had a relationship. Like, if she thinks she's doing everything right then not having a relationship feels like a conscious choice instead of just bad luck or worse. As nasty as it is, judging other people is a way to feel better about yourself, so I suspect that is one big reason why she is doing it.
I think the others have good advice for how to tactfully address the situation and at least make her aware that she is not helping your other friend feel better or resolve her issues. I think it would also help you deal with her in the future if, instead of getting irritated, you try to remind yourself of what may be going on inside her head that's making her behave that way. It doesn't excuse her, but being compassionate will probably prevent you from getting quite as pissed off!"

My sentiments exactly. I would have lost my cool long ago with the shit your friend is pulling. There's nothing I detest more than hypocritical judgment of others, especially from the unenlightened viewpoint of encouraged ignorance. More power to you if you are able to tactfully deal with the situation. I agree with the other women who posted good ways to go about talking with/to her without confronting her. Much better than anything I could come up with!

joy0302 · Kate Spade

Dizzy you sound like me. If someone REALLY makes me upset for a long period of time I just stop answering the phone and stop talking to them. I had a friend once who preached all of this stuff about no sex before marriage and how relationships should work and how she had life all figured out and the rest of us were just idiots. BLAH, BLAH! Basically she thought she was it!! Well she met a guy and slept with him after a couples of dates, something she was dead-set against. She got married, moved away, got pregnant, husband beat her up and cheated on her with her best friend. Now she is divorced with two kids. We are no longer friends because of her strong rules on everything and the fact that she was a hypocrite. I think you should evaluate your relationship with you friend and see if that is really something you want to have to deal with. People grow apart and some friendships don't last a lifetime. Try to talk to her and tell her that maybe once she has certain situations she may be a little more open, but until then she may not want to say things she might regret later. If that doesn't work maybe you might want to distance yourself. You only live once, surround yourself with friends that make you happy, not irritated!! Irritation is what coworkers are for!!