STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

Hermes

Palin's daughter

Farrah · Marc Jacobs

I applaud all of the politicians (on both sides) for asking people to stay out of it as it is a family matter. That being said, we all know that the media will definitely not stay out of it and I don't think that it will help much with the conservatives. Especially now that we know that McCain knew about it when he picked her. This morning the news that I watch asked people to write in and say what they thought and one viewer had a good point, they thought it was hypocritical of her to say how proud she is of her daughter and be vehemently opposed to sex education in schools. Perhaps if her daughter and son-in-law to be would have had appropriate sex education they wouldn't be in this situation...

I don't know though, I just don't see how it will help their case. This is one more major familial obligation to add to Palin's majorly overloaded plate and I think that people will hold that against her. As for what I think though, I am still scratching my head over her selection and this makes me scratch even harder.

twinkle_star · Kenneth Cole

I think it's great that both candidates are calling this a private matter. One wonders though how she can stand behind abstinence programs with conviction when this proves unequivocally that they don't work.

blubirde · Chanel

I'm at odds with the whole "private matter" stuff. While I agree we shouldn't be passing judgment on her daughter (that's her own sad burden at this point), I don't agree we shouldn't consider this as a talking point for Palin's own viewpoints on sex education.

I think Palin and her daughter are a shining example of how and why abstinence only programs DO NOT work. I fail to see the problem with discussing it. And honestly, with so many people saying that her experience as a mother of 5 is important in her resume (not saying it isn't), shouldn't we be discussing how her failed sexual ed programs and her own family dynamics can still produce a less than optimal situation? Given that the right believes sex ed should be left to the family, if at all, how can this situation not be pertinent?

We can all say that abstinence only programs do not keep teens from having sex and do not keep pregnancies from happening. Now we can say that having strong "family values" re: sex and sex ed do not work either. So how can someone with a pregnant teenager for a daughter continue to espouse such views? She has first-hand knowledge that they don't work. That said, how can we continue to take any of her positions seriously when she so obviously sticks her head in the sand on this issue? It's like an pro-lifer having an abortion and then continuing to argue against Roe v. Wade. I can't take anything that person says seriously anymore.

ILoveChoo · Hermes

Does anyone know for sure if Bristol's scool taught abstinance only? I've been seeing conflicting reports andI dont think tis fair to be using her as a poster child of how they dont work if that's not even what she was taught.

I feel really bad for her. Can you even imagine? This must have been hard enough on her even before it was being splashed across every front page in the world. Poor girl...

Hermes

blubirde wrote:

I'm at odds with the whole "private matter" stuff. While I agree we shouldn't be passing judgment on her daughter (that's her own sad burden at this point), I don't agree we shouldn't consider this as a talking point for Palin's own viewpoints on sex education.

I think Palin and her daughter are a shining example of how and why abstinence only programs DO NOT work. I fail to see the problem with discussing it. And honestly, with so many people saying that her experience as a mother of 5 is important in her resume (not saying it isn't), shouldn't we be discussing how her failed sexual ed programs and her own family dynamics can still produce a less than optimal situation? Given that the right believes sex ed should be left to the family, if at all, how can this situation not be pertinent?

We can all say that abstinence only programs do not keep teens from having sex and do not keep pregnancies from happening. Now we can say that having strong "family values" re: sex and sex ed do not work either. So how can someone with a pregnant teenager for a daughter continue to espouse such views? She has first-hand knowledge that they don't work. That said, how can we continue to take any of her positions seriously when she so obviously sticks her head in the sand on this issue? It's like an pro-lifer having an abortion and then continuing to argue against Roe v. Wade. I can't take anything that person says seriously anymore.

Although I your feel your assumption that "the right believes sex ed should be left to the family," is unfair and untrue (it's like saying "all democrats are gay"), I totally agree with your analogies that her daughter totally undermines her stand on sex ed and teaching abstinence.

Since this logic supports the idea that she doesn't know what she's doing or talking about on this subject, should we then assume that she doesn't know what she's doing or talking about on any subject?

Furthermore, is this an important subject? I don't even take Roe v. Wade standings into account anymore - I firmly believe it will never be overturned (the societal impact is too great in regard to freedom and overpopulation), and a president's or presidential candidate's stand on it I do not take into consideration.

What is most important to me is to successfully end the Iran conflict, reduce taxes, increase opportunities for people to succeed, and improve the economy. On that note, I don't feel religious standings go much further than attracting support - it's in our constitution to separate church and state (personally, I cringe when a president says "god bless.")

For the record, I am undecided on who I'm going to vote for. I'm just approaching the facts and arguing objectively.

-- Edited by D at 12:37, 2008-09-02

-- Edited by D at 12:38, 2008-09-02

Farrah · Marc Jacobs

ILoveChoo wrote:

Does anyone know for sure if Bristol's scool taught abstinance only? I've been seeing conflicting reports andI dont think tis fair to be using her as a poster child of how they dont work if that's not even what she was taught.

I feel really bad for her. Can you even imagine? This must have been hard enough on her even before it was being splashed across every front page in the world. Poor girl...

Abstinence only in her school. Here is a link http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-gop-conventionsep02,0,5370986.story

blubirde · Chanel

D wrote:

blubirde wrote:

I'm at odds with the whole "private matter" stuff. While I agree we shouldn't be passing judgment on her daughter (that's her own sad burden at this point), I don't agree we shouldn't consider this as a talking point for Palin's own viewpoints on sex education.

I think Palin and her daughter are a shining example of how and why abstinence only programs DO NOT work. I fail to see the problem with discussing it. And honestly, with so many people saying that her experience as a mother of 5 is important in her resume (not saying it isn't), shouldn't we be discussing how her failed sexual ed programs and her own family dynamics can still produce a less than optimal situation? Given that the right believes sex ed should be left to the family, if at all, how can this situation not be pertinent?

We can all say that abstinence only programs do not keep teens from having sex and do not keep pregnancies from happening. Now we can say that having strong "family values" re: sex and sex ed do not work either. So how can someone with a pregnant teenager for a daughter continue to espouse such views? She has first-hand knowledge that they don't work. That said, how can we continue to take any of her positions seriously when she so obviously sticks her head in the sand on this issue? It's like an pro-lifer having an abortion and then continuing to argue against Roe v. Wade. I can't take anything that person says seriously anymore.

Although I your feel your assumption that "the right believes sex ed should be left to the family," is unfair and untrue (it's like saying "all democrats are gay"), I totally agree with your analogies that her daughter totally undermines her stand on sex ed and teaching abstinence.

Since this logic supports the idea that she doesn't know what she's doing or talking about on this subject, should we then assume that she doesn't know what she's doing or talking about on any subject?

For the record, I am undecided on who I'm going to vote for. I'm just approaching the facts and arguing objectively.

I don't mean all of the right believes this. I mispoke (mistyped?). The right = the conservative right that believes like Palin does. I was referring to those on the right that think like Palin does.

As for her being wrong on this particular issue, that's not my beef. It's her refusing to admit that she might be wrong AND sticking her head in the sand about it. That, to me, is more indicative of her decision-making skills and judgment than anything else.

I'm not voting for McCain, no matter his vp choice, but I feel like I have several reasons to be involved in this issue, some of which are personal and one of which is that she might be the next vp of the usa and I want to know what the future may hold for me as a woman.

ILC - I agree that Bristol (sp?) must be going through a living hell. I can't imagine what it must be like to be in her situation, especially considering her parents' stance on such things. I'm sure she was very aware of her parents' (or at least her mother's) stance on pre-marital sex. To have to come out and tell such parents that you not only had sex but are now pregnant? And considering your family is in the public eye? Unimaginably difficult and now embarassing since all the nation's eyes are on you.

Farrah · Marc Jacobs

blubirde wrote:

ILC - I agree that Bristol (sp?) must be going through a living hell. I can't imagine what it must be like to be in her situation, especially considering her parents' stance on such things. I'm sure she was very aware of her parents' (or at least her mother's) stance on pre-marital sex. To have to come out and tell such parents that you not only had sex but are now pregnant? And considering your family is in the public eye? Unimaginably difficult and now embarassing since all the nation's eyes are on you.

I have to say, you are much better people than I am. I don't feel sorry for her one bit. I don't feel sorry for any kid that gets herself pregnant (rape and molestation instances are different though). At 17 years old you absolutely know what you are doing and what could possibly come of the situation no matter what you are taught in school and/or home. For people to think otherwise just exhibits their unwillingness to believe that teenagers are a lot smarter than people are willing to give them credit for. Do you mean to tell me that there is such a difference between 16 or 17 and "adulthood" (age 18) that this girl didn't having sex at 17 might result in pregnancy, but at 18 she could enlist in the military, serve in the war, and vote for the highest office in the land? That is completely ridiculous yet people still think that way. Total morons if you asked me. Anyway, Miss Bristol chose to play and now she has to pay, that is how I see it. JMO.

ILoveChoo · Hermes

Farrah wrote:

blubirde wrote:

I have to say, you are much better people than I am. I don't feel sorry for her one bit. I don't feel sorry for any kid that gets herself pregnant (rape and molestation instances are different though). At 17 years old you absolutely know what you are doing and what could possibly come of the situation no matter what you are taught in school and/or home. For people to think otherwise just exhibits their unwillingness to believe that teenagers are a lot smarter than people are willing to give them credit for. Do you mean to tell me that there is such a difference between 16 or 17 and "adulthood" (age 18) that this girl didn't having sex at 17 might result in pregnancy, but at 18 she could enlist in the military, serve in the war, and vote for the highest office in the land? That is completely ridiculous yet people still think that way. Total morons if you asked me. Anyway, Miss Bristol chose to play and now she has to pay, that is how I see it. JMO.

I'm not saying that she didn't know what she was doing or that she wasn't aware of the risk she was taking. If she was 18 or even 20 I would still feel sorry for her for having to go through this so publicly.

Farrah · Marc Jacobs

ILoveChoo wrote:

Farrah wrote:

blubirde wrote:

I have to say, you are much better people than I am. I don't feel sorry for her one bit. I don't feel sorry for any kid that gets herself pregnant (rape and molestation instances are different though). At 17 years old you absolutely know what you are doing and what could possibly come of the situation no matter what you are taught in school and/or home. For people to think otherwise just exhibits their unwillingness to believe that teenagers are a lot smarter than people are willing to give them credit for. Do you mean to tell me that there is such a difference between 16 or 17 and "adulthood" (age 18) that this girl didn't having sex at 17 might result in pregnancy, but at 18 she could enlist in the military, serve in the war, and vote for the highest office in the land? That is completely ridiculous yet people still think that way. Total morons if you asked me. Anyway, Miss Bristol chose to play and now she has to pay, that is how I see it. JMO.

I'm not saying that she didn't know what she was doing or that she wasn't aware of the risk she was taking. If she was 18 or even 20 I would still feel sorry for her for having to go through this so publicly.

Let me rephrase, I don't necessarily think you ladies are among that group of people I am talking about. I was just pointing out that many of the people who feel this way (sorry for her) also think that way. She also isn't new to the spotlight. Her mother is the Governor of Alaska after all...

jj · Kate Spade

This is just the icing on the cake of bad decisions for me:

- limited high-level political experience
- hubby works for BP
- has only been out of the country once, and only got her first passport a short time ago
- is supposedly a great mother but can't counsel her daughter properly about the risks of unprotected sex

And I think it does matter when you constantly tout your party as the voice of the moral majority. If they said live and let live, I wouldn't be as offended by her.

Is Palin REALLY the best female republican VP contender out there??

FashionPrincess · Hermes

I'm not here to debate whether or not she'd make a good VP as I haven't done enough research yet to know how I stand on that, but I just wanted to say that just because her daughter made a bad choice does not mean that she is not a good mother. I know I have made many a mistake but that doesn't make my mom bad, she taught me what was right, but sometimes as humans we know right but still choose wrong. To me what is more important is then what is chosen to be done with the wrong decision and it's consequences.

I'm pretty sure teens taught both forms of sex ed, whether abstinence or other, have ended up pregnant.

AllieGurl · Marc Jacobs

FashionPrincess wrote:

I'm not here to debate whether or not she'd make a good VP as I haven't done enough research yet to know how I stand on that, but I just wanted to say that just because her daughter made a bad choice does not mean that she is not a good mother. I know I have made many a mistake but that doesn't make my mom bad, she taught me what was right, but sometimes as humans we know right but still choose wrong. To me what is more important is then what is chosen to be done with the wrong decision and it's consequences.

I'm pretty sure teens taught both forms of sex ed, whether abstinence or other, have ended up pregnant.

Totally agree with this statement, and I am neither republican nor democrat.

blubirde · Chanel

FashionPrincess wrote:

I'm not here to debate whether or not she'd make a good VP as I haven't done enough research yet to know how I stand on that, but I just wanted to say that just because her daughter made a bad choice does not mean that she is not a good mother. I know I have made many a mistake but that doesn't make my mom bad, she taught me what was right, but sometimes as humans we know right but still choose wrong. To me what is more important is then what is chosen to be done with the wrong decision and it's consequences.

I'm pretty sure teens taught both forms of sex ed, whether abstinence or other, have ended up pregnant.

As a teenager daughter once upon a time, I don't necessarily know that her daughter getting pregnant means she's a bad mother. I also don't know that it doesn't. Most likely I'll never know the answer to that question since I'm in no position to know her as a mother.

That said, I think having a daughter who makes bad decisions can be indicative of bad parenting (i.e. no information given, arguing that no information should be given in schools, not supportive to open discussions, not around, etc.). I should stress that I have no idea if this is/was the case with Palin. We simply have no way of knowing whether she's a good parent or not. So yeah, this situation should NOT have us pass judgment on her whether or not she's a good mother.

As for public service, I think it's incredibly important and substantial. Not her personal situation, per se, but her opinions (as a member of government) on situations to which she has personal knowledge. It's so much easier to be pro-abstinence in schools (for instance) when no one around you does anything that makes you re-think that stance. (I personally would hope people are smart enough to see beyond their own world view but that's another issue.) Now that she's in this situation (mother of a pregnant teenager), I would imagine it would be harder to continue on with her views on sex ed. As it does not appear to be, it makes it more difficult for me have any faith in her opinions or decision-making skills at all. As a matter of fact, it terrifies me a little. It's one thing for a man to be all anti-sex ed and anti-choice, etc., but for a woman who can very easily see a lot of people aren't in the same financial or supportive situation that she and her daughter are in is incredibly alarming.

Suasoria · Chanel

I say everyone is overthinking it.

This is a well timed announcement that underscores how deeply the Palin family's faith runs. Look at it from the conservative evangelical perspective:

The point is not that she got pregnant at 17 (or 16, I don't know when her birthday is). The point is, we're all beautifully fallible sinners who deserve compassion. This family has the strength and values to stick together in a trying time. She'll do the right and responsible thing by having the baby and marrying her high school sweetheart as good Christians should. (Unlike the liberals, who see children as disposable, not gifts from God.)

And it's romantic in a way, when you consider that Sarah Palin and her husband were also HS sweethearts. See how wonderfully these fairy tales end?

While the above is mildly sarcastic, conservative evangelicals are just more energized by this news. The fact that McCain's campaign knew about it makes it even more clear to me that this announcement is a plus, not a minus.

The losers will somehow be the Democrats, because they're always losers, and they'll be blamed for the media "subjecting" Palin to such scrutiny. Finally, I agree that "private" matters aren't private for someone who is such a public figure. If Palin wants to keep her family out of the limelight, I advise her to step down.

XtinaStyles · Marc Jacobs

Its a very simple matter. McCain basically handed the presidency to Obama with his decision to run with Palin. If you think otherwise, you really are thinking too much!

fairywings · Dooney & Bourke

I think the smartest decision Obama made is to not comment on any of this. It's our business as voting citizens to be informed of such events but the truth is that it shouldn't sway your vote. And anyways...wasn't Obama's mother an unwed 18 year old?

blink · Coach

I don't think it's any more of an issue than Cheney's daughter being gay, it doesn't change the republican party views on gay rights does it?

I would never decide a candidate based on this particular family situation.

However, as a self confessed bleeding heart liberal, I do find it kind of ironic and funny that the Conservative party is both embracing this as well as demonizing it depending on the politics of the day. It makes me smile with confusion.

bex · Chanel

fairywings wrote:

And anyways...wasn't Obama's mother an unwed 18 year old?

yup- which he pointed out when he commented that he wasn't going to discuss the issue with the media.