STYLETHREAD -- LET'S TALK SHOP!

Honestly, I know you're not going to like this, but if you can really get these credits for $150, I think you should do that. When you're out of the hole financially, maybe you can go back and audit few more classes or get another degree if you still want that college experience. I know you really want to go to this class at this particular college, but right now you don't have a job and can't afford to fix your teeth. If you get money, that's where it should go first because paying $3000 for these credits isn't a necessity. Having teeth is.

Is there a possibility that you're not getting these jobs you're applying for because the employers are checking and finding out that you don't actually have a degree? That might be hurting you in your job hunt.

Hmm. Well, I understand the practicality of not spending $3000 when you could spend $150, and I agree that you should finish your degree. BUT, I think your fall fever and your situation might deserve a second look - i.e., is your current work making you happy and meeting your needs? It sounds like you may also be craving a less stressful, more carefree lifestyle (which is hard for you to have now because you're working so hard to make ends meet). Is there anything you would want to do in the music/arts realm other than run your label? Would it be worth it to finish your undergrad degree at a CC and then go back for a second degree or grad degree that might make a different/more lucrative/less stressful music/arts job easier to come by? FWIW, the federal government lends money (student loans) to *any* student who has a) never defaulted on a previous student loan, and b) never been arrested for a drug-related offense. Credit score isn't a criteria at all.

I'm not giving up the business, as I said - and taking or not taking one class is not going to affect that - I'm not one to shirk commitments and that's why I don't make them lightly. 

-- Edited by Hermione at 18:36, 2008-08-18

1) It sounds like you just want a fresh start. Nothing worked out the way you hoped. It's not your fault - it happens. Most businesses fail. And most successful entrepenueurs failed several times before succeeding. A tree-lined campus probably looks like a haven now.

2) I mostly agree with Susauria. However, it sounds like your business is one where you may have fulfilled your responsibilities by trying as hard as you can to get the funding, and the factors outside your control led to you not being able to do what you wanted to do. I don't know how much you actually owe them, if you've already done your best and met the generally accepted standards in the business. (It sounds like a lot of these companies fail, so failure in itself isn't really that much of a mark).

3) It sounds like you have a very ambivalent relationship with academia and success. From what you describe, you want what it has to offer, but you are very uncomfortable while involved in its pursuits. This is pretty common when someone from outside the middle class mainstream (through race, income or whatever) pursues higher education, which is very much based on middle class values and rules. Although never really articulated, failure to conform to these values and rules will result in some serious punishment. Your discomfort, in particular, with self-directed work, makes me think you don't have much practice in this area. It's actually pretty common (read Lisa Delpit, Patrick Finn or Lubano for more on this). Your troubles at work sound familiar too - it's common for people from a different background to have difficulty fitting in and recognizing the rules of the workplace. Office politics, therefore, can be a nightmare. I worked three jobs while in school too. I did it because I was poor. So I'm making that assumption about you. Sorry if it's wrong.

4) I may not be right about anything in number 3. I don't know you. I just recognize certain things that have happened to people I know. Regardless of whether that is the problem or not, THERE IS A PROBLEM. You don't finish classes. You are not motivated to do things that you do not see the value in - EVEN WHEN THE CONSEQUENCES ARE SEVERE. Again, this is rather common and is NOT at all a criticism of you. Lots of people feel this way, and they manage to be bright contributing members of society, which it sounds like you have already done as well.

5) Rather than jumping out of everything you have going now, it makes more sense to build on what you have done right. You have half the investors you need. That's hard to do. You have vision and promotions skills. Not everyone does. You have the charm necessary to pull people into your ideas. YOU HAVE GOOD REFERENCES. That's rare, and valuable. USE THESE PLUSES TO SETTLE THINGS DOWN. Get out of the chaos. THEN worry about your last class.

6) What can you do, right now, to just make money? Copy editing? Plumber's apprentice? Whatever it takes. Find something that will pay you until you clean things up with your credit and your business and your teeth. If possible, keep the business going so you always have that on your resume and never have to explain away gaps or a pointless job. The discipline gained will leave you better equipped to go back to school, which requires the same set of skills. Because I'm afraid that if you jump in and try again to grind out a degree, the same thing will happen again. It's like you're in a hole and the sides are crumbling in on you. You can't climb your way out of this crumbling hole because it will always fall apart underneath you. You have to dig until you have enough dirt for a secure ramp and then you can just walk out. The secret is to build your way out, not grasp. Because for people who don't fit, there's nothing to hold on to that is secure.

7) The pay off is that after you have done this, you will have security, you will have a story, and better credit, to get into a better school. Community college can be helpful, but I don't think it's going to be very helpful to you in your situation. You don't have background or family connections. You need the degree that gets you in the door. I'm not sure, reading your post, what your undergrad school was like? How prestigious is it? If you can finish your degree at a better school, will your degree be from that school? How high can you go? We like to pretend it doesn't matter, but it does. If you're jumping from poor to middle class, a lower class school will hold you back. If you'll feel successful being an accountant in your hometown, then forget this. You'll be fine with a CC degree. But if you're leaving town, you need something more. I know rich kids who never even graduated, and it didn't matter. But I know poor kids whose state school degree pretty much disqualifies them for the work they'd like to do. It is what it is. If you're poor, you have less leeway than other people. You have to accept this and identify the things you can do to get to where you want to be. Because advice aimed at people who don't have this challenge won't help you.

This part, in particular, from S, is really just another way of saying what I'm trying to say, "Your post seems very focused on the externals - familial approval/concern, prospective employers, making new friends, a cool gym, etc. F+ck the externals...

...At your level it's not about feeling that collegiate vibe, it's about accomplishing what you need to do so you can get on with running your business the way you see fit. Once that's established, take graduate courses at your fantasy college in your spare time. "


-- Edited by Dizzy at 14:15, 2008-08-18

" I don't job hop, I'm reliable when I make a commitment, as I said, but some people are not made for the same thing day-in and out type of job.I think many creative people are like that and count myself among them. "

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Oh, yes. I understand this completely. It's why I get bored so fast doing just one thing at work (and why I do so many things on the side).

If you can swing the 3K, then it sounds like it would be good for you in a lot of ways. And it sounds like what you really want to do right now. Getting back into an academic environment definitely helps with mental stimulation and social interaction.

-- Edited by kenzie at 14:32, 2008-08-18

Ok, so you were poor during school, but overall you like school? You were just depressed? You didn't finish classes because of the depression? And you had no support because your parents are kind of nuts, rather than just poor?

I'm sorry, this sounds harsh, but the background you're describing still isn't going to get you into I-banking. It's not what I'd call representative of middle class values - quite the opposite.. And the situation you describe does not at all sound like you have, as you claim, "got your act together." It sounds like you grew up in a chaotic environment, with survival prioritized over school, and parents who were slipping back from briefly gained prosperity who gave you little to no guidance or help. That's not easy. Then you were in and out of school, you never graduated, you have had a series of jobs you don't like, and a failed business (again, that's common), and now dental care is a crisis?

This situation isn't good. I think you need to face it, rather than running around claiming that what you really want is to spend $3,000 you don't have to get a class you don't need. That is not a good plan. I agree that you need peace and quiet, but it needs to be something you gave yourself, rather than a school. School requires debt, and one last class gives you no better employment options. It's just a bad plan. It sounds like all you want is temporary shelter. There has to be a cheaper option than this.

Finally, my family has depression. I know it makes everything impossible. It sounds like yours hasn't been handled properly yet. Maybe start by taking care of that, then your teeth, THEN your class. You have your hierarchy of needs turned upside down.

Hermione wrote:

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Ok - general consensus says no.
Thanks everyone.



*and in my defense, which may not be necessary but for some reason I feel like it is - I had mononucleosis, and managed a 16 hour class load plus three jobs and an internship - it was an independent study class that I just couldn't summon the energy for.  That wasn't really because I was being lazy or school wasn't for me, it was unavoidable.  As far as the jobs I don't like, well I had to take jobs to pay for my bills while in school - I don't think every job is going to be a career - and if one is going to be an entrepeneur, sometimes living poor is necessary.  I have never worked at a job for less than a year, most were two years.  As far as depression - good luck to me finding a way to take care of that aside from government-subsidized happy pills. 

-- Edited by Hermione at 18:42, 2008-08-18

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Well, I kind've want to change my answer, after your follow up. Honestly, the direction this thread took makes me sad, because I think some people (and I'm not pointing fingers or attacking, just sympathizing with how I would feel if I got some of the responses you did) took this beyond your original question. In any case, I didn't mean my response to be overly negative. I thought at first that maybe it would be better to wait to go back to school, but from your second post it does sound to me like maybe going to the "nice" school is the best thing for you right now. Sometimes taking care of yourself means doing something that other people see as irresponsible. Only you know what is best for you, and you clearly have done a fine job taking care of yourself up to now, so I would trust your own judgment. My only other advice is to maybe try to go to school half time so you can take full advantage of the various benefits available to students (as a half-timer at a uni, you can usually get uni health insurance, qualify for student loans, etc.).

ETA: To respond to what Dizzy said, but with a slightly different perspective. I agree that basic needs (shelter, health, etc.) are key, but I think being a student might be the best way for you to achieve those things right now. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of programs for the "working poor" in our country, and going to school is one way to access a) health care, b) health programs, like a gym, and c) money to help you live better while you're going to school. This isn't a long term solution, but for a smart and capable person, it's an excellent stepping stone. I know this from personal experience. I worked my a** off through grad and undergrad degrees, but I also used student loans. My education and the fact that I had a good college experience and made sure I had time and money to also have fun have paid me off in spades, both in terms of my financial success and my happiness now. I wasn't always responsible in those days, but I weighed my irresponsible decisions carefully and accepted their consequences, and it has worked out for me. So, FWIW, I have confidence that you can make the right decision for you.


-- Edited by Miss Mabel at 19:08, 2008-08-18