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Hermes

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This was in my inbox this AM. Thought it would be a good discussion starter smile

In Just One Year:

This email comes in three parts.

Part 1:

In just one year.  Remember the election in 2006?
Thought you might like to read the following. A little over one year ago:

1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.

Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:

1) Consumer confidence plummet;
2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $4.00 a gallon;
3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses);
5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.

America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!

Remember it's Congress that makes law not the President. He has to work with what's handed to him.
 
Quote of the Day........'My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world.  I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it.' -- Barack Obama
 
 
Part 2:
Taxes...Whether Democrat or a Republican you will find these statistics enlightening and amazing.
www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html

Taxes under Clinton 1999                         Taxes under Bush 2008

Single making 30K - tax $8,400              Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $14,000            Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $23,250            Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K - tax $16,800         Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $21,000         Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $38,750       Married making 125K - tax $31,250

Both democratic candidates will return to the higher tax rates.
 
It is amazing how many people that fall into the categories above think Bush is scamming them and Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever. If Obama or Hillary are elected, they both say they will repeal the Bush tax cuts and a good portion of the people that fall into the categories above can't wait for it to happen. This is like the movie The Sting with Paul Newman; you scam somebody out of some money and they don't even know what happened.

 

PART 3:


You think the war in Iraq is costing us too much?

 
Read this:
Boy am I confused.  I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is the Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us. I now find that to be RIDICULOUS. I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them.  I have included the URL's for verification of all the following facts:

1.      $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.    
Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77
2.
     $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html  (Dead URL)
3.
     $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html (Dead URL)
4.
     $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
Verify at:  http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
5.
     $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
6.
     $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
7.
     30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
8.
     $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html (Dead URL)
9.
     $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
10.
   The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens.  In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US .
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt..01.html  (Dead URL)
11.
   During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries.  Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S. from the Southern border.
Verify at: Homeland Security Report:  http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
12.
   The National Policy Institute, estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.
Verify at:  http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/publications.php?b=deportation
13.
   In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.
Verify at: http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
14.
   The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States .
Verify at: http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml   (Dead URL)
The total cost is a whopping $338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.
 
Are we THAT stupid?
 
If this doesn't bother you then just delete the message.  If, on the other hand, if it does raise the hair on the back of your neck, I hope you forward it to every legal resident in the country including every representative in Washington, D.C. - five times a week for as long as it takes to restore some semblance of intelligence in our policies and enforcement thereof.




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Marc Jacobs

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My friend sent me that and I wrote back asking her not to spread her smug Republican ignorance (although I'm a registered Republican). We then got in to a (friendly) heated debate.

I just hate these political chain letters either way.

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Hermes

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XtinaStyles wrote:

My friend sent me that and I wrote back asking her not to spread her smug Republican ignorance (although I'm a registered Republican). We then got in to a (friendly) heated debate.

I just hate these political chain letters either way.



I don't find it any more smug or ignorant than any democratic propaganda.  Besides, friendly, heated debates are good smile



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Marc Jacobs

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I actually find the illegal alien dollar amounts shocking. I am all for living in a country that is a true melting pot, with freedom for its citizens, but I am a believer that if you want to be a part of that then you have to abide by the laws that you are hopeing will provide you a new future. That means becoming a citizen.



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Kate Spade

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I'm extremely interested by those tax differences. That's huge! When you're making 30k a year, 4k is a biggggggggggg difference! My goodness! And the funny thing is, though I haven't thought about it in terms of congress, I can tell the difference - I remember freshman year of college on my poor waitress/ part-time retail salary owing taxes at the end of one year and I couldn't believe it.


-- Edited by Hermione at 22:18, 2008-06-23

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Chanel

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These stats are presenting an incredibly skewed picture. That said, you can use statistics to show just about anything you want to show, especially political agendas. That's why it's really important to do your own research and figure out what's true and what's propaganda.

It's true that the Dems have been stymied at every turn since they took over the majority. Unfortunately they didn't get a quorum majority, which is necessary to overcome partisan bickering.

But if you want a statistic, here's one: when Bush took office, he said the Clintons had mismanaged our energy policy and we needed a real oil man to take over and fix things (i.e. Cheney and Bush). Did I mention that gas was $.99 a gallon when he took office?




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Chanel

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It's so thoroughly laden with propaganda that it's almost funny. The "verify at --" links are particularly laughable.

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Kate Spade

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blubirde wrote:

These stats are presenting an incredibly skewed picture. That said, you can use statistics to show just about anything you want to show, especially political agendas. That's why it's really important to do your own research and figure out what's true and what's propaganda.




 Exactly what I was going to say.



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Hermes

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blubirde wrote:

These stats are presenting an incredibly skewed picture. That said, you can use statistics to show just about anything you want to show, especially political agendas. That's why it's really important to do your own research and figure out what's true and what's propaganda.

It's true that the Dems have been stymied at every turn since they took over the majority. Unfortunately they didn't get a quorum majority, which is necessary to overcome partisan bickering.

But if you want a statistic, here's one: when Bush took office, he said the Clintons had mismanaged our energy policy and we needed a real oil man to take over and fix things (i.e. Cheney and Bush). Did I mention that gas was $.99 a gallon when he took office?



You know, all propaganda, whether from the Republican or Democratic, skews statistics and facts to support their arguments.  It's like religion - many Christians feel their religion is the most valid religion and all their back-up is skewed to support it. 

I agree, do your own research and reach your own conclusions.  I just found some of the information in this email interesting to contemplate.



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Marc Jacobs

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Thats how I felt - you can take any statistic and skew it.

They mention the relative low cost of the "war" compared to welfare.. this is not a fair comparison - war should be temporary and not a permanent fixture like welfare. In times of war, you don't then opt out of welfare programs, you do BOTH.

I could just see the argument "Well if all these single mothers werent on welfare then we could afford everything" (from my friend). Her dad is an anesthesiologist, mom never worked, they have a gorgeous house and the maid lives in the basement. They have never had to struggle financially, so I just get annoyed with her heartless view of politics.



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Hermes

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My father's response...

"The data is basically correct and its a damn shame. 
However, I disagree with the author's premise that the Democrats in Congress are solely to blame.  Much of the problem is the result of most members of Congress blindly following the corrupted and dishonest directions of both Republican and Democratic leaders. 
Both of these bastardly political parties have pushed international trade agreements that devastated our homeland industries and promoted imports as a dominant factor in our economy.  Both parties have served as pimps to the financial and corporate interests that created the housing bubble.  The only thing that I don't blame American political and academic elites for is the gas price.  That is a natural supply and demand result.
Bush's shameless promotion of the so-called "War on Terrorism" and the stupidity of Congress and the American proletariat in swallowing the great lie has only exacerbated the mess.
So I blame the elephant heads, the donkey heads and the sheep heads (Americans who vote mindlessly for their favorite personality or "the lesser of two evils") equally.
It's time for a third-party revolution and a return to the old Constitution and its ingenious system of checks and balances on the human proclivity to power and greed.
Down with partisan politics!
Thank you for reading my morning rant.
Life is good."


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Marc Jacobs

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D wrote:

My father's response...

"The data is basically correct and its a damn shame. 

However, I disagree with the author's premise that the Democrats in Congress are solely to blame.  Much of the problem is the result of most members of Congress blindly following the corrupted and dishonest directions of both Republican and Democratic leaders. 
Both of these bastardly political parties have pushed international trade agreements that devastated our homeland industries and promoted imports as a dominant factor in our economy.  Both parties have served as pimps to the financial and corporate interests that created the housing bubble.  The only thing that I don't blame American political and academic elites for is the gas price.  That is a natural supply and demand result.
Bush's shameless promotion of the so-called "War on Terrorism" and the stupidity of Congress and the American proletariat in swallowing the great lie has only exacerbated the mess.
So I blame the elephant heads, the donkey heads and the sheep heads (Americans who vote mindlessly for their favorite personality or "the lesser of two evils") equally.
It's time for a third-party revolution and a return to the old Constitution and its ingenious system of checks and balances on the human proclivity to power and greed.
Down with partisan politics!
Thank you for reading my morning rant.
Life is good."



DANG!!  D's Daddy has got it right!! 

IMO, there are many people to blame for the current state of our country and as much as I would like to point the finger solely at Baby Bushey I cannot.  One of my major problems with government right now (the No Child Left Behind Act) is a product of both parties and it is a horrible, unrealistic mess that will in no way, shape, or form fix education in this country.

As for the illegal alien numbers, that is just sad.  I am for welfare with restrictions because at one time in my life my mother and my sister both needed assistance.  It was not a way of life for them though, it was a way to get by while they created better opportunities for themselves.  That is how welfare should be; it should not be a system to be taken advantage of or milked.  And quite frankly, it should not even be an option for people that are not citizens of this country.  JMO.

Lastly, I think that part of the reason that people are disgusted with war spending is that they do not believe that we had any business going over there in the first place, myself included.  But now that we are there we must support our troops and hope that we do not have another Vietnam on our hands: my biggest fear.



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Kate Spade

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Like everyone has pointed out, statistics and numbers and can be skewed and twisted to support any point of view. But those numbers are majorly flawed, and anyone with half a brain should be able to reason this out for themselves.

1. Yes, taxes were higher under Clinton, but are we forgetting that he handed Bush a balanced budget and SURPLUS? Clinton did not spend gastly amounts of money with no way of funding those expenditures. And how does government fund its expenditures? TAXES! I love how Americans always seem to forget this. Finally, look at that taxes in other countries, and then thank God you live in the US. Even under a Democrat our taxes are drastically lower than in Europe.

2. People say they're all for a melting pot, blah blah blah. But they don't seem to have any idea what immigrating to the United States legally entails - the huge COSTS, the YEARS of waiting, the lottery system, etc. Unless you are already well off, well educated, or extremely well-connected, or from a "desireable" country, your chances of immigrating to the US are slim to none. So are all of these poor, uneducated people to be doomed to poverty in their own countries? Or should they be allowed to seek a better life in the US? Marginalizing them and forcing them to live on the fringes of our society because they are illegal immigrants is not the way to prevent higher crime rates, or encourage these people to become productive citizens. People forget that these illegal immigrants are seeking a better life - but most of the time lack the means to do so "legally." I don't mind that my tax dollars are going to support that.

3. I take a HUGE exception to comparing the disgusting, idiotic "War on Terror" budget to spending on welfare. Bush and his administration dragged us into a war founded on LIES. Anyone who could read should have known that the WMD were a trumped up excuse to go to war. I did not have a single professor, did not read a single report or book, that supported Bush's lies. So comparing his expenditures on a senseless and wasteful war that has killed over 4,000 American soldiers and thousands of Iraqi civilians is DISGUSTING.

4. Finally, the economy is not a result of electing Democrats to office in 2006. It is a culmination of many factors. For example, the mortgage crisis - I would like someone to explain to me how that is the fault of a Democratic majority. As BluBirde mentioned, it is a Democratic majority, but it is not a quorum. Republicans have been able to stop any real change the Democrats could have instituted.

One more thing - yes, gas is expensive. But what is the Republican response? Offshore drilling in California, and a gas tax holiday. I can't even BEGIN to list the reasons that those two options are the most idiotic ideas on the face of the planet.

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Chanel

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I don't really want to comment on this at the moment because I'd have to think it through too much at work... BUT

am I the only one that is ecstatic that gas prices are so high?  I really think high gas prices are the ONLY thing that will get Americans to make some changes and think about how we are affecting our environment.  I've read about carpools, driving less, riding buses/bikes, switching to 4 day work week, working from home a couple of days a week, consuming less... whatever it takes til this becomes a habit is fine by me.
I took a few economy classes in college and every single problem noted that environmental costs and other costs that couldn't be quantified were to be ignored (though they could be important!).  I wonder if that's changed.. it's been a few years. 

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Chanel

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lynnie wrote:

am I the only one that is ecstatic that gas prices are so high? I really think high gas prices are the ONLY thing that will get Americans to make some changes and think about how we are affecting our environment. I've read about carpools, driving less, riding buses/bikes, switching to 4 day work week, working from home a couple of days a week, consuming less... whatever it takes til this becomes a habit is fine by me.


Um. Possibly. I live in suburban hell where there is barely any mass transit and I couldn't take it to work even if I wanted to since there are no stops within 5 miles of my job. And while my company has a carpool program, no one lives close to me to carpool. We aren't allowed to work 4-day work weeks and there's no way in hell they'd ever let anyone work from home unless they've worked at the company for 20 years. I also commute two days a week to grad school, which is an hour away, so that sucks gas away, too.

So no, I'm not happy. I would love to move to a city (or the outskirts of a city) where none of this mattered or I could walk or bike almost everywhere (I'd also like to work from home at my own business). But, for various reasons, none of that is an option at this exact moment (hopefully, in the near future it will be). However, for the large majority of Americans, this isn't a reality. Whether we like it or not we're a car nation. What would be helpful is the government would sink more money into a mass transit rail system. There was supposed to be one here, but funding was cut because the government didn't think enough people would ride it. I'm sure those trains would be filled to capacity now if they had kept going with that project.

Sorry I didn't comment on the original post. It would take me too long and I'm at work.

 



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Chanel

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lynnie wrote:
am I the only one that is ecstatic that gas prices are so high? I really think high gas prices are the ONLY thing that will get Americans to make some changes and think about how we are affecting our environment. I've read about carpools, driving less, riding buses/bikes, switching to 4 day work week, working from home a couple of days a week, consuming less... whatever it takes til this becomes a habit is fine by me.


I've heard this from a lot of progressives over the years, and the thing that makes me non-ecstatic about it is that it disproportionately impacts some groups who have longer commutes.

Demographers and sociologists often study "spatial entrapment" and they find that African-American women have longer commutes than white women, for example. Clerical workers have longer commutes than executives. Across the board, the working class has longer commutes than the middle and upper class.

These are also the communities who have less access to working from home, carpooling, and mass transit due to their working hours or duties. Teachers, nurses, clerical workers - that is, pink-collar jobs - don't lend themselves to telecommuting, nor does manual labor.

So short story long, increased gas prices don't pinch everyone equally. The ones who can least afford it are going to feel the greatest pinch.

 



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Chanel

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kenzie wrote:

lynnie wrote:

am I the only one that is ecstatic that gas prices are so high? I really think high gas prices are the ONLY thing that will get Americans to make some changes and think about how we are affecting our environment. I've read about carpools, driving less, riding buses/bikes, switching to 4 day work week, working from home a couple of days a week, consuming less... whatever it takes til this becomes a habit is fine by me.


Um. Possibly. I live in suburban hell where there is barely any mass transit and I couldn't take it to work even if I wanted to since there are no stops within 5 miles of my job. And while my company has a carpool program, no one lives close to me to carpool. We aren't allowed to work 4-day work weeks and there's no way in hell they'd ever let anyone work from home unless they've worked at the company for 20 years. I also commute two days a week to grad school, which is an hour away, so that sucks gas away, too.

So no, I'm not happy. I would love to move to a city (or the outskirts of a city) where none of this mattered or I could walk or bike almost everywhere (I'd also like to work from home at my own business). But, for various reasons, none of that is an option at this exact moment (hopefully, in the near future it will be). However, for the large majority of Americans, this isn't a reality. Whether we like it or not we're a car nation. What would be helpful is the government would sink more money into a mass transit rail system. There was supposed to be one here, but funding was cut because the government didn't think enough people would ride it. I'm sure those trains would be filled to capacity now if they had kept going with that project.

Sorry I didn't comment on the original post. It would take me too long and I'm at work.

 






I'm from suburban hell too, so I know exactly how car dependent our country is. It will not change everyone's habits; but unfortunately the ones that WOULD change their habits but CAN'T have to suffer from the high prices for those that COULD change their habits but DON'T. I think something's got to give or there won't be anything left at all. Maybe it's too late- who knows. Nothing makes me sadder actually.

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Chanel

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Suasoria wrote:

lynnie wrote:
am I the only one that is ecstatic that gas prices are so high? I really think high gas prices are the ONLY thing that will get Americans to make some changes and think about how we are affecting our environment. I've read about carpools, driving less, riding buses/bikes, switching to 4 day work week, working from home a couple of days a week, consuming less... whatever it takes til this becomes a habit is fine by me.


I've heard this from a lot of progressives over the years, and the thing that makes me non-ecstatic about it is that it disproportionately impacts some groups who have longer commutes.

Demographers and sociologists often study "spatial entrapment" and they find that African-American women have longer commutes than white women, for example. Clerical workers have longer commutes than executives. Across the board, the working class has longer commutes than the middle and upper class.

These are also the communities who have less access to working from home, carpooling, and mass transit due to their working hours or duties. Teachers, nurses, clerical workers - that is, pink-collar jobs - don't lend themselves to telecommuting, nor does manual labor.

So short story long, increased gas prices don't pinch everyone equally. The ones who can least afford it are going to feel the greatest pinch.

 






Yea I understand. It always seems to be this way. But things CAN change if they have to.


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Kate Spade

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lynnie wrote:

I don't really want to comment on this at the moment because I'd have to think it through too much at work... BUT

am I the only one that is ecstatic that gas prices are so high?  I really think high gas prices are the ONLY thing that will get Americans to make some changes and think about how we are affecting our environment.  I've read about carpools, driving less, riding buses/bikes, switching to 4 day work week, working from home a couple of days a week, consuming less... whatever it takes til this becomes a habit is fine by me.
I took a few economy classes in college and every single problem noted that environmental costs and other costs that couldn't be quantified were to be ignored (though they could be important!).  I wonder if that's changed.. it's been a few years. 



Lynnie, I totally agree with you.  I'm hoping this will prompt more people to think about public transporation, riding bikes, etc. 

I also hope that it will prompt companies to think about investing in alternate energy sources.  If there is a market for it (if gas prices stay high), I'm sure will come up with some pretty innovative solutions.



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Hermes

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I can't even read this because it makes my eyes roll so far into the back of my head (don't worry, I can't stand democratic nonsense either- and I work in politics!!) but one thing did jump out at me... in that first section, they only compare that last 1-2 years.... so what was it 3-4 years ago? Especially with the gas prices, I think its most likely more indicative of a longer trend and not something that happened the day a Democratic Congress was elected. Of course what started that trend is alway up for debate...



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